Give War A Chance, The Next Generation
Ace of Spades -- Saturday, June 14, 2003 -- 09:35:20 PMTomorrow is the anniversary of the July 9 uprising. Fuck the Mullahs. Kill them All.
Question for the group: Apart from Colin Powell and George Bush, is there anyone in the world liberals are interested in fighting and/or imprisoning and/or executing?
They sure seem to have an evergrowing Rainbow Coaltion of protected persons (Saddam Hussein, Yasser Arafat, etc.).
This thread is tagged: iraq(All users will see what tags exist for a thread. Please tag carefully!)
Ace:
In the sentence you posted, Clinton hadn't used the present tense. If you quoted the wrong part of his speech as evidence for your argument, that is your fault.
I'll say it again, as those here are still trying to distract away from the central question, by bringing up Clinton.
Do you really believe that the buried centrifuge validates Bush's earlier claims that Iraq had WMDs and was actively trying to get nukes?
Cal:
I guess I am just more sanguine than MsIT, but not so much more that I feel like getting into an argument with her about it.
don't know all that much about it. Given the embarrassment, my hunch is that the intelligence was wrong, but that it wasn't a lie.
Ah. Ponytail has a "hunch." See, Ponytail's "hunch" tells him that Clinton was merely wrong, while Bush was lying.
That's his "hunch."
There's no point arguing about it.
" If there is evidence to the contrary, I would have expected to have heard about it by now."
Really? How would that happen, since you studiously avoid reading anything that might violate your hunches?
As you are apparently ignorant (what a shock), the New Yorker Magazine ran a rather damning indictment of the whole affair, and how MANY people were saying that there just wasn't enough evidence re: the Aspirin factory, but the word came down from the top that we had to BOMB SOMETHING NOW, and Clinton picked the factory.
But hey-- you haven't heard of any such information. In other words, no one has cut and paste it to your ever-growing forehead for you.
There's just a certain faggish otherworldliness to this entire discussion. I say "Of course Clinton has said, during his Presidency, that Saddam had WMD," Ponytail says he didn't, citing a SINGLE SENTENCE, I rejoin, "Of course he said it, just not in that sentence," and once again, it's "my fault," according to Ponytail, because I didn't find the sentence for him proving I was right quickly enough.
See, I *tricked* her into taking an obviously wrong position, by not doing enough homework for her and bringing her up to speed.
And it should be noted the eventual proof WAS in fact in the first speech I posted for Ponytail-- it just wasn't one of the sections I bolded and highlighted for Princess Ponytail's convenience.
So, once again, Princess Ponytail was wrong, but it's my fault, because in delivering information to her to correct her ignorance, I failed to properly highlight the sections which would disprove the nitpick she was about to quibble over.
No, Rask-
It's you who keeps changing the question and then argues that hose who answer the new questions are distracting from the original question.
You say Bush was lying.
Others point out to you that his position has been consistent with the positions of his predecessors on the same topic. They conclude that all the presidents are either, right, wrong, or lying.
You can't stand to think that the middle president involved might be lying so you think of every excuse in the book-- blame the UN, the future tense crap, etc.
Your impassioned defense fails miseralbly, so you go back to your original assertion, but add a a caveat. Bush was lying and what Clinton said is irrelevant.
And the cicle of life continues.....
Cal,
Yes, I know you were just inviting me. But you and the Ms DO have political reasons to want the economy to continue ooching.
Don't lie.
Even if you're not thrilled with the Democrat alternatives to Bush, you sure the fuck don't want a huge win for the Republicans-- not only would that deprive you of interest, but it would empower the RR types you find so "ick."
So spare me, okay, Cal? Why the fuck do liberals always have to insist they have absolutely no political bias in rendering any opinion, judgment, expectation or wish?
Oh, and spare me the "I'm a registered Republican" crap, too. Not funny. Never was.
Ace: please articulate what your point is about the aspirin factory. That Clinton was a Wag-the-Dog asshole and Bush is no worse?
Or are you just trying to distract from the completely bogusness of your claim that the centrifuge validates Bush's claims that Iraq had WMDs and an active nuclear program.
I think the latter.
yawn
enough
Look, Princess Ponytail, you're going to lose in 2004, and lose badly, so, you know, get your yuks while you can.
I can't wait 'till the Democrat candidates dismissively wave off the uranium centrifuge with a harumph.
That will sell well with the American people. That will really convince them that it's once again safe to vote Democrat again.
Ace, I will be voting for Bush, barring a vastly improved Dem candidate from the current clan (and not even Gore at this point). I have no political motives. I am very worried about the economy.
Your determination to see everything in political terms gets old.
Jimmy:
But Clinton and Bush were saying different things. This is what you seem to miss. Clinton didn't cite documents from Niger that his administration knew to be forgeries.
This is idiotic. Clinton has a long track record of lies.
Ace, I take it then that you no longer claim that the centrifuge validates what the Administration said about Iraq possessing WMDs and an active nuclear weapons program?
Ace, I will be voting for Bush, barring a vastly improved Dem candidate from the current clan (and not even Gore at this point). I have no political motives. I am very worried about the economy.
Your determination to see everything in political terms gets old.
Re-read my post, dearie. The fact that you may be voting for Bush by default does not mean you want the man to have a big mandate now does it?
And if the economy improves, he will have a big mandate, and then Katie, Bar the Door.
You know it. I know it.
Please. Give it a rest. I'm so sick to death of hearing about how fucking impartial you are.
As I've said before, MsIt and you have political reasons to be down on the economy, and you always will, so please, bugger off already.
Yes, and you seem to have equally strong reasons to ignore data and musings that suggest Bush's domestic policies are fucked.
Let's see, real wages shrunk 1.5% over the same period that energy prices, housing costs, medical costs and higher education costs rose between 5-10% (real prices).
The latest official data on first quarter growth puts it at a resounding 1.4% annualized. Yes, we're in the middle of a fucking fantastic recovery. All due to Bush.
Is that what passes as Truth for Republicans?
My concerns transcend whether Bush has good numbers for the next election or not. My concerns are that the recovery is not here, is not getting here, and will not be here in full force for at least the next year, if then.
Princess Ponytail--
What it means, sweetheart, is that I no longer consider you honest enough, intelligent enough, or interesting enough to correspond with on this point, or, more than likely, any other point.
You're like a fucking retarded three year old who cheats at Monopoly for six hours and then when your opponent walks away in disgust you cry out "Forfeit!" in triumph.
You forfeited. Sometime around the third restatement of your claims, sometime around the fifth backpedal.
Fuck off and die. I don't have time for insects like you.
Oh right.
Hide behind your pointless bullshit name calling.
You're the hack here. And it becomes more apparent with every stupid comment you make about the economy, and your supposed insight into its well being.
And frankly, I am happy to join the legions of intelligent people who have now been crossed off your "list" of those worthy of commentary.
Were you not a raving, rabid conservative hack, it might have more of an impact.
MsIt,
"Princess Ponytail" is Rask, not you.
To you, I would say this:
Yes, they just knocked down the growth rate from 1.9% to 1.4%. Yes, that is not good growth.
Yes, I have political reasons to root for a strong recovery, just as you ahve political reasons to root against one. I never said otherwise.
That said, we have low interest rates, low taxes, a Fed ready and willing to inject more money into the economy if needed, lots of quarters of productivity gains, and energy prices about to drop. We have a lot of good conditions accumulating.
MsIt is forever misunderstanding and getting things wrong. She is, like Cal, a social retard. She's always making these silly faux pas.
Like a bull moose in a China shop.
Ace: You complete lost track of the argument due to your recurrent desire to hallucinate what your opponent is saying. I repeat, our disagreement over Clinton was over your inability to come up with good evidence. I *never* said that Clinton denied Iraqi WMDs.
But rather than debate the utter lack of substance to a news item that you deemed so signficant that you highlighted with a siren, you go off on a tangent about Clinton, and then blame me for your inept Googling skills when you can't find what you want.
Why the fuck would I call MsIt "Princess Ponytail"? If I wanted to insult her, I'd call her "Madame Moustache" or something. What's insulting, to a woman, about "Princess Ponytail"?
And why would I attack her like that straight out of the box?
But she just leaps to these asinine conclusions.
Her social retardation is endearing, in a way. Awkwardness can be cute.
Princess Ponytail,
*
Kiss my pinkish pucker.
Ace
By the way, when I would treat Ponytail badly, the rest of you stupid fucks -- and I'm looking at you, Tom -- would be all, "Gee, why are you picking on poor Rask? He's a fair debater, isn't he?"
Blow me, Cochese. I've never seen Rask this disgraceful in approach; if I had, I would have said so; and, I'm positive I never said [w]hy are you picking on poor Rask or anything like it.
Madame Moustache,
I aim to please.
"I've never seen Rask this disgraceful in approach;"
You didn't read him doing this, then. You skipped. Fine. But he did just this-- all the time.
if I had, I would have said so; and, I'm positive I never said "[w]hy are you picking on poor Rask or anything like it."
Nah, you never said that. It would be more of a tone. You and other people would come into an argument like this, not bothering to read it (and I can't blame you), and you would see these childish arguments about trivia, and you'd be like, "Hey, what is the fucking issue?"
And the issue would be trivial, indeed, but the triviality would have been injected by Princess Ponytail; we'd be arguing about just this same sort of idiotic parsing crap. And the tone of the newcomers would be, "Isn't this awfully silly?"
And yes-- it was awfully silly. Because I'm sitting here arguing with Princess Ponytail about past and future tense and whether the UN can disburden you of the responsibility for checking your intelligence.
And yet, I'd be taking the blame for it, for getting my dander up over these sorts of Chutes and Ladders level strategems.
My point? Before I left, when I would call Rask a Lying Faggit or what not, and everyone would tsk-tsk me for savaging poor Rask, it was because she was descending to this level of abject nonsense and being so insufferably arrogant about it.
The things you did for us.
The weight you must bear.
Shut your secreting cakehole.
Look, Goofus, bear in mind, you and Pincher are only now realizing that "Gee, Alistair, VonK, Jay, and Majori really don't seem to have the best interests of the United States and assorted Jews everywhere at heart."
I'm always ahead of the curve.
That's all I'm saying.
I went through this with VonK, too. And the heat I was getting was like, "Gee, but vonK is so polite."
Yeah, he's a polite guy who would rather have American soldiers die than Iraqis. A real fucking hero. Just the sort of guy I want to call "My Internet Buddy."
Tom:
Do I know you? I am not up yet on all the Mote/Fray aliases here.
Also, what did you find particularly disgraceful? I backed up my reasoning on why I thought the Bush administration was using trumped-up evidence, but Clinton wasn't, and I backed up my reasoning of why Ace has not proven the claim that he highlighted.
So far, no one has defended the administration's use of the Niger documents that the CIA discredited, or argued at all that the centrifuge vindicates Bush's claims about the existence of Iraqi WMDs.
"The things you did for us."
Indeed. My opinon as to Rask, vonK, Alistair, Cock in the Mouth Jay, etc., hasn't changed in the least.
Your opinions did.
Such is the burden of always being so fucking goddamned right. Trouble is, you're right long before what I like to call the "Chickenbrain" intellects catch up to you.
"I backed up my reasoning on why I thought the Bush administration was using trumped-up evidence, but Clinton wasn't, and I backed up my reasoning of why Ace has not proven the claim that he highlighted."
Oh yeah, Champ, you're waaaaayyyy ahead on points. We're looking at a unanimous decision here.
Ace
The burden? The burden of what? Being unheralded? Or having hot flashes. Shut up.
Rask
I'm 109019, Jack Vincennes, Francis Urquhart, and a bunch of other aliases I've forgotten, plus many others.
And no. Ace and Jimmy and I have demonstrated how disgraceful your approach has been and I've no interest in pursuing it further.
As for Niger, unlike you, I can say "They puffed." I don't have to hand over any credibility I might have to simply say "The information got caught in the mill and they puffed."
"The burden? The burden of what? Being unheralded? Or having hot flashes. Shut up."
Hot flashes? What are you, a writer for Three's Company? Is this 1978? No, it is not 1978.
Oh hey, long time no see.
Sorry, but this sounds awfully wimpy. I think you simply bought Ace's line about what I was arguing with regard to Clinton (I admitted that Clinton believed there were WMDs very quickly once Ace actually found a valid quote). If so, you should know better.
I don't understand what this means. "Puffed" means "lied"?
Perhaps it was your use of Goofus that threw me off.
I'm not saying I'm smarter than you, Goofus.
I want YOU to say I'm smarter than you.
That's all.
