Catholics
dirt track date -- Saturday, July 06, 2002 -- 02:29:01 PMSo why the hell haven't you left the church yet? I have church-shopped off and on for decades, and have never found anything comparable. I disagree with most of the church's teachings, but then so do most other Catholics I know. In what other religion can you cheerfully ignore the official line but still be welcome? I guess that's why I haven't left.
What about you?
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I'm going to have to quit posting in this thread and start up in the Frozen Chosen thread, for I have found my church home.
After years of soul searching and being on the fence, I've decided I have to find another faith community where I can wholeheartedly join in and not be forced to ignore or excuse things that I find objectionable. After years of prayer and contemplation and struggle, I found this community. It is a 20 minute walk from my house to church, and it sounds trivial but when I lived in an apartment complex of Orthodox Jews I learned how wonderful and peaceful it is to walk to your place of worship on the Sabbath.
The final straw for me was this: Oregon Jesuit Province files for bankruptcy
The number of abuse claims is simply shocking. And the method for dealing with abusers was to dump them on Native villages in Alaska--where they continued to prey on children.
I knew at least three of the Jesuits named in various documents--one was my pastor for ten years.
I'm just sick at my stomach for all of the people that were hurt by these men. I can't continue to tithe and support the power structure that decided that this coverup was the best way to further the mission of the church, and I can't support the power structure that insists on a vow of celibacy and thereby attracts closet cases with a loathing of their own sexuality into the priesthood.
And the Nazi pope and his Holocaust denier bishop was the final nail in the coffin.
A heretic! A heretic! In our very midst!
Something to meditate on during Lent: Should Catholic hospitals perform abortions, if the only alternative is to close?
Vatican Backs Excommunications Stemming From an Abortion
...
This won't bring DTD back to the RC church, but:In Letter to Bishops, Pope Admits ‘Mistakes’
In which the Pope and Vatican curia basically say, "oh shit! we should have been reading the internet all along!! News gets out so fast that way!"
It's infuriating that the mother and physicians of the girl mentioned above were excommunicated, but not the rapist.
I think many are either leaving or at least staying away from Mass from my Parish due to the new music director. I know three of us feel that way. She's made it much more like a musical and less like a Mass. I don't like it, but I've still been going regularly, almost treating attendance like a built-in penance.
Is the next closest parish any better? I'll freely admit that I don't go to the church two blocks away because I don't like the music.
Also, their crucifix is creepy. And the 10:00 mass, the one I'm most likely to go to is "family mass" which is really "kiddie mass." And my favorite Sunday breakfast spot is on the way to the church farther away.
OK, so I have several (shallow) reasons for not going to the church two blocks away.
We switched because we could not understand the priest at the old parish. The new church is in a town we hope to move to eventually, so it seemed like a better idea than to go to the other church nearby, which was actually closer.
Frank--is the music director the same one that drove me out? The woman with the talent for picking the worst of the bad guitar music. Listening to "Hosea" every week in Lent last year made me want to pluck out my eardrums with red hot tweezers.
I guess I got out just in time: Newt Gingrich is joining the Catholic church
In what way is she making it more like a musical than a Mass?
(Sorry, haven't come back in a while)
Well, this week she went full-bore Jesus Christ Superstar, complete with that ol' backbeat rhythm on the responsorial psalm. Haven't heard the pipe organ in weeks, she just keeps making everything far more contemporary and with songs that are complicated enough for the choir to sing, let alone the congregation. And she has background music for the opening prayers. If I wanted a song and dance gospel revue I'd go protestant.
Does she have a giant screen in front yet with the lyrics on powerpoint slides?
Weaver--who cares that he is a sinner. But he's already telling Fr. Jenkins at Notre Dame that he's getting it all wrong.
The man's arrogance is breathtaking. I can't wait for him to start bossing the Pope around. That should be good.
I'm just waiting for her to announce that Fr. Oliver will no longer be needed.
Well, there's no likeability requirement for becoming Catholic.
Since we cannot know another's heart, we can only assume his intentions are sincere, and hope that he finds grace and peace through the sacraments.
I'm sure the Episcopal church would grant him the same respect.
I'm also sure the Church is big enough to include Newt Gingrich. And he's easy enough to ignore.
A lot of people think Fr. Jenkins is wrong. Gingrich is far from alone on that.
More people are changed by Notre Dame than change the beliefs of the ND community. I heartily support their gesture toward Obama and I find it encouraging that he accepted their invitation.
Really? I support the protesters. Notre Dame's Catholic identity has been in question for some time, but they're really showing their colors now.
I read a couple of blogs with a Catholic focus that are written by ND alumni. I tend to agree with one blogger that probably every college and university in the country invites the sitting president to speak at commencement as a matter of course, and gives an honorary degree to go along with it, with no real expectation that he'll accept.
So ND inviting Obama is really no big deal. Now that he's accepted, the only thing to be done is to let him speak, with protests. And now that they've offered him the honorary degree, they really can't play takesies-backsies, and ND will just have to swallow that.
Well, of course that is what an Anglican heretic would say. Which is rather to the opposite point.
That is actually not factually correct.
I think it's great he's going to speak
I'd actually have no problem with him speaking, but not at graduation and not receiving an honorary degree. He has made it his business to advance the opportunity for and ease of abortion and the degree bestows legitimacy and approval on those views.
Really, the sanctity of life is central to Catholicism. If I had a child graduating from what should be one of the major Catholic institutions in the US and I had to deal with this noise, I would be one pissed off mama.
I thought Notre Dame IS one the major Catholic institutions in the US, regardless of who speaks at commencement.
I don't agree that the honorary degree signals approval of his views. It's probably what any sitting president would get for speaking.
Those who speak at commencement and receive honorary degrees should not be window dressing or entertainment for the masses. The choice should be meaningful and should definitely not signal even more departure from Mother Church.
He is not going to be speaking about stem cell research, is he? I think a bunch of intelligent university graduates can bear hearing from someone who has a dissenting view on one subject--one he isn't going to address anyway.
There was a big kerffule at my college (a christian (non-catholic) college) when President Bush was invited to speak at graduation a couple of years ago. A lot people angry at the war and torture protested the invitation and it was fodder for campus debate for months. In the end he came and spoke and it wasn't the end of the world.
The debate was actually a good thing for the college in that it made a lot people engage with issues they might have not previously discussed openly with each other.
War can be just. There's room for argument there. The sanctity of life is not open to debate. Obama unabashedly opposes a central issue to the faith.
Again, ND is just proving that it really isn't all that Catholic anymore.
There's speaking, and then there's giving a commencement speech - the motivating, rallying speech that sends the graduates out into the world.
Giving that platform to somebody who has consistently acted contrary to the university's core values is an odd choice.
Does ND ever invite people of non-Christian faiths to speak?
Most certainly. It's not about being Catholic.
Molly--absolutely.
Curb, I have no insight to ND's process, but I have attended two Catholic Universities. And the answer is that it depends upon the individual's platform. There is commonality of purpose and values across faiths, to be sure.
This old press release (from 2001, around the time President Bush was invited) from ND lists some notable commencement speakers in their history:
Notre Dame Commencement Speakers
Not a full list and does not include anybody recent.
Exactly. What exactly would you be afraid of Marsie, letting your college graduate hear the words of Obama at commencement? He is not Catholic. There is no requiremend or even tradition that the commencement speaker be Catholic.
And how is abortion any worse than capital punishment, or the war in Iraq which the Pope JP II specifically did say did not rise to the level of a "just war"? There is lots of killing in the world, and Catholics need to stand up for all life, not just the not yet born. The hysteria around abortion while evils like assisted suicided and capital punishment and torture get glossed over undermines their position.