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The Republican Kennedys
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The Perfect World >> Politics >> The Republican Kennedys

The Republican Kennedys

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 06:18:51 PM

The Bushes: Two presidencies, two governorships, one vice presidency, one senator's seat. All provided with minimal skill and flexible ideology. The GOP family that just won't go away, no matter how badly they mess things up for both party and country. A thread to discuss all things Bush, including whether Jeb will add to the family's resume.

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Pincher Martin -- Tuesday, March 06, 2012 -- 06:19:06 PM -- 567 of 707
"There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -- Edward Abbey

Greg,

The current sanctions have a hell of a lot more teeth in them than anything from the Bush era, and are seriously hurting their economy. Power's shifted from the nutjob Ahmadinejad to the religious leaders, who're now calling nuclear weapons "unislamic". Still a danger certainly, but short of a first-strike what do you suggest?

You're just babbling. You want to say something positive about Obama and something negative about Bush on their Iran policies, but you don't know how to go about it. So you puff out your chest and try to bluff you way through.

Obama's current tough sanctions on Iran did not come until he was more than two years into his presidency. They were an admission that his previous two years of diplomacy towards Iran had failed. These sanctions will not stop Iran's nuclear program. So the choices are: allow Iran to have nukes or initiate some sort of military action. Thus sanctions are either a prelude to military action or they are worthless posturing.

Obama's current position is that if the sanctions don't work, he will order military action. That's a very Bush-like position (pre-2006) for the president to lay out there. But I think Obama is talking tough to forestall Israeli military action until after the presidential election when he won't need the Jewish vote and the high price of oil isn't so politically dangerous to his campaign.

We may soon find out because it appears the Israelis don't trust Obama and aren't willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Netanyahu gave an extremely powerful speech at AIPAC last night, and while it was superficially polite to the president, he made clear he doesn't trust the man to do what's right for Israel.

The "not doing anything" is a bunch of loose talk from McCainalikes & Liebermen who think we ought to just attack Iran. Them and people like them see a pre-emptive strike as the hammer for every nail in that part of the world. Iran, Syria, whatever, let's start another war where we're the clear aggressor based on our fears about what they might have or do a couple years from now. Worked so well before.

There's no contradiction in saying that McCain and Obama can both be wrong. McCain can be a jingoist and Obama a dupe (or worse). But that's not my argument. I'm saying that as far as Middle East policy is concerned, Obama is essentially Bush. He shows the same aggressive idealism towards the region. Bush talked tough about Iran ("axis of evil"), but didn't do much about it because he was bogged down babysitting Iraq.

Yes, Obama has modified some of Bush's policies, but the War on Terror is still being vigorously prosecuted under his regime in the name of the same ideals. In fact, I've been amazed at how bloodthirsty Obama has come across in some his speeches. He very well may have it in him to bomb Iran.

Far as the Arab Spring events, this may surprise you but we don't control Arab uprisings. And the dictators we'd supported haven't really done very well at making us safer, but have certainly contributed to the popular unrest and sense of powerlessness that leads people toward terrorism.

Surprise me? You're the idiot who was overjoyed by the Arab Spring, as if it augured some positive development for the United States. You're the one who wanted us knew-deep in encouraging these uprisings. I now see we are on the same side of the Syria uprising as al Qaeda.

I want the people in those countries to gain more democratic representation, even if it opposes us, in order to break the logjam in that part of the country. Democracy and having their voices heard has an inherent calming effect, longer term, and will help stabilize the region.

You do a wonderful impersonation of Bush. He couldn't have said it better himself. Do you, too, have us on the fifty-year plan? I would think you'd have to, Our earliest democratic experiments in the Middle East, which began nearly a decade ago, have still not yielded any fruit in calming and stabilizing the region. Weaver's doing much better with his gold investment than you are with this investment in peace and stability.

jenrenton -- Tuesday, March 06, 2012 -- 09:29:24 PM -- 568 of 707
Snowflake mother

I want the people in those countries to gain more democratic representation, even if it opposes us, in order to break the logjam in that part of the country. Democracy and having their voices heard has an inherent calming effect, longer term, and will help stabilize the region.

Seriously? You are serious about this claim?

This is like claiming that the world is too interconnected by trade links to ever go to war. That turned out not to be the case in 1914, 1939, and, oh, every other time it has been claimed.

The Arab countries have enormous, bulging population pyramids; they are teeming with young, single men. Adding political sparks to this population of dry timber is not a plan for stabilization.

Pincher Martin -- Saturday, March 24, 2012 -- 08:31:56 PM -- 569 of 707
"There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -- Edward Abbey

Jeb Bush says Romney needs to 'change the tone' with Latinos

Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, who just two days ago endorsed Romney, told reporters in San Antonio Thursday that Romney needs to “change the tone” with Latinos away from immigration issues and more towards areas such as education, small business development, and social issues, noting that the GOP frontrunner can do “quite well” if he does.
“He’s embraced education reform, which to me is the most important, aspirational set of policies. If you advocate reform, you’re going to get more people a chance to be successful. He has a pro-family perspective that I think is important and has been embraced by Latino families across the country. He has an agenda to embrace small businesses and I think emphasizing that in terms of regulatory reform, tax reform, will help with Latino voters. His own life experience is one that I think can be helpful. But, he’s got to change the tone a bit, that’s all – and I think a lot of the things, the emphasis,” Bush said.

If I were forced to name a single reason why Republicans were a strong party in 1988 and a weak party in 2012, I would have to answer with the Bush family. They give the worst political advice when out of office and implement the worst policies when in office, and yet the GOP can't seem to shake their hold on the party.

Pincher Martin -- Tuesday, April 03, 2012 -- 03:42:06 AM -- 570 of 707
"There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -- Edward Abbey

Where's Dubya?

Romney rarely talks about Bush on the campaign trail, save for the day he received Florida Gov. Jeb Bush’s backing. That day, Romney gave a full-throated defense of the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the widely-unpopular bank bailout that was approved in the waning months of the Bush White House. Rick Santorum has repeatedly apologized for voting for Bush’s signature education plank, “No Child Left Behind.” The prescription drug benefit that Bush spearheaded in 2003, an entitlement program that has added to the national debt, was another vote that Santorum has disavowed.
McKinnon said his own surprise at the way Republicans generally have responded to Bush is “tempered by recognition that politicians who make difficult decisions and lead through times of conflicts are rarely popular in their own time. But history often takes a different view.”
A number of former Bush aides argued that congressional Republicans have contributed to the tarring of Bush, and that time will vindicate him.
“That’s been the case since they lost the House in 2006,” said one former Bush aide, adding, “Besides, where were they when he wanted to tackle what they now say is critical to dealing with our long term debt, entitlement spending? They were so far behind President Bush when he pushed Social Security reform you could barely make them out in the distance. But when Social Security is finally reformed, it will most likely resemble the proposal President Bush first laid out.”

It's just incredible the level of self-delusion some people operate under.

Pincher Martin -- Saturday, April 21, 2012 -- 05:33:26 AM -- 571 of 707
"There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -- Edward Abbey

Jeb Bush's campaign advice to Romney

Bush said American voters have had their fill of nasty campaigns after a blistering GOP primary process.
"After the end of this four or five months of really negative campaigning I think people are going to be motivated by a more positive message," Bush said, adding that he believed personal attacks should stay out of the campaign.
"I don't think we need to demonize the president," Bush said. "I know a lot of people when my brother was president spent a lot of energy trying to demonize a good honorable man."

The Bush family really does think it's all about them.

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, May 16, 2012 -- 07:06:07 AM -- 572 of 707
"There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -- Edward Abbey

George W. Bush comes out of hiding to refute another argument no one is making. Dan Larison is on the case.

George W. Bush is still courageously tackling strawmen:
"The idea that Arab people are somehow content with oppression has been discredited forever."
This wouldn’t be quite so risible if there were evidence that anyone in the West in the last several decades had claimed that Arabs or any other people on earth were “content with oppression.” There is a huge difference between this and arguing that a nation with weak institutions and no tradition of representative government will face enormous difficulties in creating a stable, pluralistic democracy. Critics of Bush-era democracy promotion did argue that democratization will be destabilizing to the countries and regions where it occurs. That idea certainly hasn’t been discredited by events of the last decade. Another argument against promoting simple majoritarian democracy is that it is likely to empower illiberal majority governments and populist authoritarians, and it may lead to the persecution or expulsion of minority groups. That seems to be borne out by events. Other skeptics pointed out that newly democratic governments were likely to be more antagonistic to the U.S. and its policies than their predecessors, and that has so far proven true as well....
So why does Bush think it noteworthy than an idea that no one in the West today accepts and is absurd on its face has been discredited? This is typical of Bush’s speeches. He sets himself up in opposition to a view that no one holds, pretends that he is being some sort of a visionary for challenging these non-existent political forces, and all the while insults the intelligence of his audience.
GregD -- Thursday, May 17, 2012 -- 01:34:44 PM -- 573 of 707
After the power to choose a man wants the power to erase. --Stephen Dunn

George W. Bush is writing a treatise on economic growth.

Rimshot.

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, May 30, 2012 -- 01:29:23 AM -- 574 of 707
"There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -- Edward Abbey

Jeb Bush on veep speculation: ‘I would consider the proposal very carefully’

Jeb Bush would consider an offer to become Mitt Romney's vice presidential running mate "very carefully," the former Florida governor told Italian news outlet Linkiesta in an interview on Tuesday.
"If Romney were to offer me the job of vice president, I would consider the proposal very carefully," Bush told the online news outlet, according to a Yahoo News translation. "But I don't think he'll pick me."
jenrenton -- Wednesday, May 30, 2012 -- 02:53:18 AM -- 575 of 707
Snowflake mother

AHHHHHHHH!

Weaver -- Wednesday, May 30, 2012 -- 02:36:44 PM -- 576 of 707

A great sigh of anticipation?

jenrenton -- Wednesday, May 30, 2012 -- 04:44:36 PM -- 577 of 707
Snowflake mother

Scream of horror, my friend. I'm staring into the abyss.

GregD -- Wednesday, May 30, 2012 -- 04:49:41 PM -- 578 of 707
After the power to choose a man wants the power to erase. --Stephen Dunn

Having the Bush name placed on the ticket by the nominee is simply too much to even hope for.

Phillip Sheridan -- Wednesday, May 30, 2012 -- 06:39:46 PM -- 579 of 707
Could someone tell me my password?

Anybody have his favorables/unfavorables?

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, May 30, 2012 -- 07:58:47 PM -- 580 of 707
"There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -- Edward Abbey

I don't remember seeing any favorables/unfavorables, but Jeb as VP polls middling. He looks good in some polls and not so good in others. In some Florida polls, he helps Romney-- even more so than does Rubio.

Jeb would still be a disastrous VP pick. He would embody Obama's political strategy of a Romney presidency being a return to the Bush years. The polls simply don't reflect the endless fun the Obama campaign will have with Jeb's selection.

Phillip Sheridan -- Thursday, May 31, 2012 -- 03:29:33 PM -- 581 of 707
Could someone tell me my password?

I agree. For the same reason, I oppose Portman.

Lizard S. -- Thursday, May 31, 2012 -- 05:21:38 PM -- 582 of 707
If you wish to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.

Jeb saying "I would consider it" is a nice change from all those prospective VP candidates who said, No fucking way, though.

GregD -- Thursday, May 31, 2012 -- 05:37:10 PM -- 583 of 707
After the power to choose a man wants the power to erase. --Stephen Dunn

I love that Portman's primary qualification for VP in their mind is that he's the only Republican in the US more boring/vanilla than Romney. The only man who's sure not to outshine the nominee.

Detractions? More foreign policy experience than Romney. Well, that and increasing the US debt by half a trillion dollars while working for Bush. Kinda undercuts that whole fiscal responsibility thing.

Pincher Martin -- Thursday, May 31, 2012 -- 09:23:55 PM -- 584 of 707
"There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -- Edward Abbey

I agree. For the same reason, I oppose Portman.

You may be right. A completely fresh start might be needed. I've certainly felt that a clean break from anything that remotely smells of Bush would be helpful to the party.

But removing from consideration every person who ever served Bush in any capacity during his eight years in office removes a lot of people from consideration, and I don't think the attacks on Portman will be nearly as potent as they would be if the name "Bush" was on the ticket.

A lot depends on Portman. Will he be effective in defending himself? My flirtation with Tim Pawlenty's presidential candidacy shows I can't tell that by looking at a resume. I need to see these guys in action before I know for sure, and I haven't seen Portman in action. His one year as Bush's Budget Director is vulnerable to attacks, but he did only spend one year in that office. (I don't think his one year as Trade Representative matters.) If he can't defend one bad year on his record, he doesn't belong on the ticket.

Hopefully, the Romney people looking at VPs are able to better gauge that than I am. But on a visceral level, Portman's connection to George W. Bush isn't nearly as deep as Jeb's. Portman has to defend one questionable year. Jeb has to defend the family name and both the presidencies associated with it.

Pincher Martin -- Thursday, May 31, 2012 -- 09:27:00 PM -- 585 of 707
"There is science, logic, reason; there is thought verified by experience. And then there is California.” -- Edward Abbey

Jeb saying "I would consider it" is a nice change from all those prospective VP candidates who said, No fucking way, though.

I get the sense that a lot of people would like to be on the ticket.

CalGal -- Friday, June 01, 2012 -- 01:27:47 AM -- 586 of 707
I remember a time, back in the late 90s, when I thought nonsense like this mattered somewhat more than I do now. Now I see well-educated people yammering about the birth control choices of their daughters, or gay marriage, and I think they are morons.

Does Jindal have any negatives, apart from youth?

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The Perfect World >> Politics >> The Republican Kennedys