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The Republican Kennedys
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The Perfect World >> Politics >> The Republican Kennedys

The Republican Kennedys

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 06:18:51 PM

The Bushes: Two presidencies, two governorships, one vice presidency, one senator's seat. All provided with minimal skill and flexible ideology. The GOP family that just won't go away, no matter how badly they mess things up for both party and country. A thread to discuss all things Bush, including whether Jeb will add to the family's resume.

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Harri P. -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 06:50:29 PM -- 4 of 1022
such a fucking bitch about taupe and borders and fireplace mantles that aren't just so

"exercized" in THE NEW YORK TIMES?

I give up, world. You win.

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 06:58:05 PM -- 5 of 1022
"The worst enemy of human hope is not brute facts, but men of brains who will not face them." - Max Eastman

Sir Edward,

He wants to greatly increase immigration.

He wants to greatly increase federal spending on, and control of, education.

He supports affirmative action.

He has no new ideas on the economy that his brother didn't already implement, much to the detriment of our economy.

In short, a large reason to dislike Jeb is because he shows no evidence he would be any different from his brother. And we saw how that turned out, didn't we?

I presume a rehash of the merits and failures of the Bush administration is not the subject of this new thread.

It certainly can be if a poster wants to discuss it.

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 06:59:26 PM -- 6 of 1022
"The worst enemy of human hope is not brute facts, but men of brains who will not face them." - Max Eastman

If you support Jeb's presidential bid, Sir Edward, you are beyond hopeless.

GregD -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:00:28 PM -- 7 of 1022
After the power to choose a man wants the power to erase. --Stephen Dunn

the dog didn't really eat the child's homework, but George W. Bush did really leave the nation with huge problems.

Even so, Obama should have banned anyone working for him from blaming anything on the previous administration about 8-10 months ago. Comes a point you suck it up and work the problem.

your brief against Jeb Bush

IMO the question isn't whether anything's wrong with Jeb Bush so much as whether anyone would even think twice about him without the last name. I don't think anyone would, which puts him in the same middling category as the rest of the clan.

Lizzie T. -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:01:00 PM -- 8 of 1022
Oh, for crying out loud.

"exercized" in THE NEW YORK TIMES?

In college, I knew a guy who liked to find one such error in the New York Times every day. It never took him very long.

Sir Edward Pakenham -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:05:02 PM -- 9 of 1022

I don't support anyone yet (save for Chris Christie). And you may find yourself supportive of a Jeb Bush presidency, given the alternative. Indeed, he may even repent and clean up for you ala' Mitt Romney.

GregD -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:06:11 PM -- 10 of 1022
After the power to choose a man wants the power to erase. --Stephen Dunn

FWIW I thought George HW Bush was a decent president that mainly lost due to an ill-timed recession and his constituency losing its mind on him breaking the "no new taxes" pledge. And he seemingly got no credit for the success of the Gulf War.

The public is unable to grasp that no president can improve the economy or prevent recessions by force of will. Voting out one because the economy took a bad turn is just pointless, no matter how good it feels.

Derek Goddard -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:14:42 PM -- 11 of 1022
"I want to help clean up the state that is so sorry today of journalism." Professor Palin

"The public is unable to grasp that no president can improve the economy or prevent recessions by force of will."

I can't decide who the bigger moron is, you or Martin.

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:14:54 PM -- 12 of 1022
"The worst enemy of human hope is not brute facts, but men of brains who will not face them." - Max Eastman

I don't support anyone yet (save for Chris Christie). And you may find yourself supportive of a Jeb Bush presidency, given the alternative.

No, I won't. You haven't understood a single thing I've told you over the last couple of years if you believe otherwise.

FWIW I thought George HW Bush was a decent president that mainly lost due to an ill-timed recession and his constituency losing its mind on him breaking the "no new taxes" pledge. And he seemingly got no credit for the success of the Gulf War.

The first Bush was one of the best presidents on diplomacy and foreign policy -- in my opinion, better than Nixon -- but he was a cretin on everything else.

The public is unable to grasp that no president can improve the economy or prevent recessions by force of will.

How about by good and bad policies?

Sir Edward Pakenham -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:17:16 PM -- 13 of 1022

Don't sell yourself short. You voted for Bush the second time around and made noises about supporting Romney.

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:19:05 PM -- 14 of 1022
"The worst enemy of human hope is not brute facts, but men of brains who will not face them." - Max Eastman

I supported Romney. And that 2004 vote for a Bush was my last.

What's shocking is that with all that has happened since then, you still think it's 2004.

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:19:54 PM -- 15 of 1022
"The worst enemy of human hope is not brute facts, but men of brains who will not face them." - Max Eastman

In what way will Jeb Bush's presidency be different from his brother's? What policies will be different?

Sir Edward Pakenham -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:21:44 PM -- 16 of 1022

You supported Romney after your religious conversion. Why?

catling -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:23:10 PM -- 17 of 1022
The best wedding sparklers are the long-lasting #14 Gold. They are also very effective in exorcisms. All sparklers are wonderful for bringing and ridding curses.- sparkler sales web site

IMO the question isn't whether anything's wrong with Jeb Bush so much as whether anyone would even think twice about him without the last name.

The name got him the job in the first place, but he was generally regarded as a competent governor of one of the Big Four states who managed to steer the state through significantly difficult times in 2001 and 2004, and he's got a couple of policy accomplishments that look good on many conservative checklists. There are equally areas where he's seen as having significantly screwed up, but any decent spinmeister can bury those until momentum builds.

Unlike Charlie Crist's first couple years, Jeb!'s actions frequently had substance to them, for good or ill.

Sir Edward Pakenham -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:23:10 PM -- 18 of 1022

In what way will Jeb Bush's presidency be different from his brother's? What policies will be different?

You and I have no way of knowing at this point, which is why it is borderline childish for you to discount him. You once wrote wisely about the value of the flip-flop. You also backed Romney, who held positions as noxious to your philosophy as those held by Jeb Bush.

catling -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:24:45 PM -- 19 of 1022
The best wedding sparklers are the long-lasting #14 Gold. They are also very effective in exorcisms. All sparklers are wonderful for bringing and ridding curses.- sparkler sales web site

One thing I will say for Jeb! is that he won't keep reading My Pet Goat while the world's falling apart around him.

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:34:17 PM -- 20 of 1022
"The worst enemy of human hope is not brute facts, but men of brains who will not face them." - Max Eastman

You supported Romney after your religious conversion. Why?

There was no religious conversion. Romney played to my positions, and I supported him for it.

You and I have no way of knowing at this point, which is why it is borderline childish for you to discount him.

I have a way of knowing it and it's called LISTENING. I listen to what Jeb says and when he says it. He talks, for example, about increasing immigration and applauds Obama's education policies.

Listening. You might want to try it sometime.

It is beyond childish to not be able to learn from experience. At least a child knows after he touches a burning stove not to touch it again. The eight years of George W. Bush didn't teach you a damn thing.

You also backed Romney, who held positions as noxious to your philosophy as those held by Jeb Bush.

That's not true. Romney made illegal immigration a major part of his campaign. In fact, it was reported that the Bushes were unhappy with Romney because of his position on immigration.

You want to have it both ways. You want to accuse me of ideological rigidity and then you accuse me of supporting candidates who hold positions noxious to my views. Well, which is it?

The truth is, and has always been, that I'm willing to compromise, but only so far, and the Bushes are a bridge too far.

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:41:08 PM -- 21 of 1022
"The worst enemy of human hope is not brute facts, but men of brains who will not face them." - Max Eastman

The name got him the job in the first place, but he was generally regarded as a competent governor of one of the Big Four states who managed to steer the state through significantly difficult times in 2001 and 2004, and he's got a couple of policy accomplishments that look good on many conservative checklists.

George W. Bush was also considered a very competent governor. Bipartisan, too.

Pincher Martin -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:45:00 PM -- 22 of 1022
"The worst enemy of human hope is not brute facts, but men of brains who will not face them." - Max Eastman

I'm curious as to how Sir Edward thinks Republicans in this era ought to run differently from how George W. Bush ran ten years ago. Despite his Tea Party sympathies, he never gives any indication that the GOP needs to refashion itself at all.

Sir Edward Pakenham -- Wednesday, June 23, 2010 -- 07:57:20 PM -- 23 of 1022

I don't write as much as you do, which may be why you have more questions about my positions. I believe the GOP in this era should run in greater alignment with the Tea Party movement, emphasizing smaller government, local solutions, lower taxes, and deficit reduction.

As for my willing to compromise, you have it too - you just don't show it often, and when you do, you absolve yourself of the stench that an old hack like me must carry. That's fine, but it reminds me of --

Senator Pat Geary: I despise the way you pose yourself. You and your whole fucking family.

Michael Corleone: We're both part of the same hypocrisy, senator, but never think it applies to my family.

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The Perfect World >> Politics >> The Republican Kennedys