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Religion in Political Discourse
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The Perfect World >> Politics >> Religion in Political Discourse

Religion in Political Discourse

Weaver -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 08:59:11 PM

The role of religious motives, methods, organizations, ideas, words and people in political activities: good or bad, effective or ineffective, how and why?

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j. ross -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:30:59 PM -- 16 of 1355

Most troubling is that Bush seems willing to say that his god, his interpretation of faith is what should drive our policy and gives credence to our actions as a country.

Wouldn't almost any devout person have to believe this, even if he were not willing to say it. I know if I believed in God Almighty, and that he was a Good God I would be unable to avoid believing that my God, and by extention my faith (which is how I understand Him) should drive our policy. REally, how could you not believe that?

Brigit M -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:32:09 PM -- 17 of 1355

He elaborated on the debate remarks at greater length. Obviously I am not sure I would either, hence the "dabbling" but it was leaning vaguely that way.

Thanks; I haven't yet caught up with that.

The second problem is that once you tie a specific suite of political positions to religious doctrine you begin making ranking people as cosmically good or evil based on how they feel the country should be run. Beyond being silly, it's destructive to our long-term cohesiveness and I'm convinced it's the road to division and ruin. It's the elimination of the American idea that people of good faith can disagree.

Yes, this troubles me too. I'm not sure what draws some to this view and not others; it's nothing as clearcut as sect membership or theological conservatism.

Brigit M -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:33:55 PM -- 18 of 1355

j. ross, I agree with that, actually. The extension described in Greg's final paragraph is where I see trouble. I can believe that I need to put my faith into practice in my leadership without believing that no one of good faith can disagree with me.

GregD -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:45:33 PM -- 19 of 1355
After the power to choose a man wants the power to erase. --Stephen Dunn

Shelby was helping calling Dems to GOTV yesterday, her first outing with the local Dem organization. She was really upset however by how the other Dems there talked about the right in general and people of faith specifically. The left really does have a hate of religion problem. A good portion of religious people are on the right because they empathize politically with the left but don't feel like they're wanted or trusted there. Calling them all "stupid Nazi assholes destroying the country and creating a totalitarian state" is not only untrue but does nothing to win people over, which is what the Dems need to do to avoid falling out of the game altogether.

ktp -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:48:21 PM -- 20 of 1355

Again, this is why we need moderate people like Shelby volunteering, rather than staying home and letting people like Campo canvass your neighborhood.

(Deleted message originally posted by ktp on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:48:22 PM.)

Brigit M -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:51:49 PM -- 22 of 1355

That's instructive. Perhaps next time I'll volunteer.

Roy Kay -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:58:27 PM -- 23 of 1355
Sluttius Maximus

Suppose someone agrees with you politically, though- does it detract from that agreement that he derives it from his religious faith?

Yes. Because I wonder (fear?) what the stance on the next issue will be. Religion is inherently authoritarian. It derives it's moral impact from the authority that gives it birth and sustains it. That authority is beyond question and criticism or the faith falls.

I regarded Liberation Theology as highly suspect, seeing it as a way to combine the efficient tyranny of Stalin with the mythical Papal power to chase opponents beyond the grave. What we saw in Carter and LT was a failed effort to wave the cross against the cross. In the end authoritarian strains of Christianity were enhanced simply because it conformed more to "Fundemental" and "Orthodox" forms.

GregD -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:58:50 PM -- 24 of 1355
After the power to choose a man wants the power to erase. --Stephen Dunn

The setup was disorganized as hell, too. True to form, Shelby's response when she got home was "I'm taking over that whole organization".

ktp -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:59:29 PM -- 25 of 1355

She needs to do that. Really.

j. ross -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:01:09 PM -- 26 of 1355

Just so long as she doesn't let her husband influence her politics.

Equinox -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:24:44 PM -- 27 of 1355

Remember Will Rogers' quip: "I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat."

GythaOgg -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:26:00 PM -- 28 of 1355
"I didn't realize that -- and maybe this explains quite a bit -- is that the news organizations look to Comedy Central for their cues on integrity." - Jon Stewart

Beware the overly pious men who need an audience for prayer.

MATTHEW 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

One of those Bible verses that doesn't get quoted very frequently...

Weaver -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:27:31 PM -- 29 of 1355

Yes, it does.

Frank Black -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:34:09 PM -- 30 of 1355

A good portion of religious people are on the right because they empathize politically with the left but don't feel like they're wanted or trusted there.

I always thought the environmental movement could make far greater strides if they allied themselves with religion in some ways. Xtian, not like, Wicca and stuff.

winger -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:50:28 PM -- 31 of 1355
If I wanted to share your point of view I'd sit on your lap.

A good portion of religious people are on the right because they empathize politically with the left but don't feel like they're wanted or trusted there.

And how is the not being trusted or welcomed demonstrated?

Weaver -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:51:19 PM -- 32 of 1355

Yeah, you assholes, just how is the not being trusted or welcomed demonstrated? Admit it, that's a lie!

winger -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:52:37 PM -- 33 of 1355
If I wanted to share your point of view I'd sit on your lap.

Frank, given that most Chrisitian faiths hold to a form of "the earth and all its creatures were created by God for the use of man" ideology as a opposed to "the earth and it's creatures have value in their own right" ideology of the Greens, I'm not sure how that would happen.

Weaver -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:55:04 PM -- 34 of 1355

Like this:

In 1990, Pope John Paul II issued his World Day of Peace Message, Peace with God - Peace with all of Creation, in which the Holy Father announced, "There is a growing awareness that world peace is threatened not only by the arms race, regional conflicts, and continued injustice among peoples and nations, but also by a lack of due respect for nature.... Moreover, a new ecological awareness is beginning to emerge which, rather than being downplayed, ought to be encouraged to develop into concrete programs and initiatives."

except for without the Green response of "We hate you, you religious bastards."

winger -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:59:17 PM -- 35 of 1355
If I wanted to share your point of view I'd sit on your lap.

Stomp your foot a little harder weaver. A fanny waggle would be good too.

I don't think Greg is telling a lie, I think he is incorrect that he's identified a significant factor. Religious people vote on the right because the right currently supports many of their views of importance.

A lot of my Catholic friends were very torn by this election. They didn't support the war in Iraq because of their feelings about the sanctity of life but also felt a vote for Kerry was a vote for stem cell research and abortion rights. Without the war in Iraq they would have voted for Bush in a heartbeat.

I never once heard them talk about being trusted or welcomed, they talked about the impact of policy on the what they beleived to be important.

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The Perfect World >> Politics >> Religion in Political Discourse