Warning: array_merge(): Argument #2 is not an array in /home/perfecto/perfectworldtoo.us/public_html/preflight/indexFunctions.php on line 3673
Religion in Political Discourse
Folders: A Sense of Place ·­ Blogosphere ·­ Chat ·­ Competitive Sports ·­ Current Events ·­ Domestic Sphere ·­ Family ·­ Finance, Careers, & Education ·­ Games & Goofiness ·­ Geek Subjects ·­ Global Policy ·­ Health & Fitness ·­ Literature & The Arts ·­ Marketplace ·­ Meta-Forum ·­ Mostly Christmas ·­ Movies ·­ Politics ·­ Social Policy ·­ TPW Archives ·­ TV Talk ·­ Values & Beliefs
 
The Perfect World >> Politics >> Religion in Political Discourse

Religion in Political Discourse

Weaver -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 08:59:11 PM

The role of religious motives, methods, organizations, ideas, words and people in political activities: good or bad, effective or ineffective, how and why?

This thread is tagged: religion
tag this thread:   
  (All users will see what tags exist for a thread. Please tag carefully!)
Check Subscriptions   The Latest   First   Previous   Next   Recent   
Brigit M -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:17:24 PM -- 10 of 1355

You don't mean the debate remarks, j. ross? I don't know that I'd go so far as to call that liberation theology.

shawi -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:17:30 PM -- 11 of 1355
Use it up; Wear it out; Make do; Or do without

Suppose someone agrees with you politically, though- does it detract from that agreement that he derives it from his religious faith?

Not to me.

j. ross -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:25:44 PM -- 12 of 1355

don't know that I'd go so far as to call that liberation theology.

He elaborated on the debate remarks at greater length. Obviously I am not sure I would either, hence the "dabbling" but it was leaning vaguely that way.

I used the term partly because I know several Godless leftists who really disrespect religion in politics here in the USA who were big LT fans when South America was all at war with itself.

Sue Generous -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:26:04 PM -- 13 of 1355
FIGHT THE SENSE GOD GAVE A GOOSE!

j.ross, touche (although it didn't seem so much like LT to me).

So maybe for me it does come down to the Jimmy Carter brand of judeo-christian philosophy vs. the (insert your favorite wingnut here) brand of judeo-christian philosophy. I love Jimmy Carter and love the beauty of his faith. And in retrospect, maybe his economy wasn't so bad either.

DJ Dre -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:26:56 PM -- 14 of 1355
We have met the enemy and he is us.

I don't see Bush as evil. But I don't seem him as a man of great values or morality either. Most troubling is that Bush seems willing to say that his god, his interpretation of faith is what should drive our policy and gives credence to our actions as a country.

I stop short of saying that we’re on the road to becoming the Christian version of a Islamist state. And I hate to sound like a liberal alarmist (especially as I self-identify as a conservative) but his stance and the acceptance of it by so many does worry me. They don’t seem to hear the echoes of religious extremism that I hear in their own words.

The unapologetic nature of it is what is most concerning. Because we’ve managed to balance that righteousness, the rightness that can’t help but follow any religious belief system, in our actions in the public sphere.

Carter, I believe, tempered his righteousness.
Who will temper George Bush?

GregD -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:27:55 PM -- 15 of 1355
After the power to choose a man wants the power to erase. --Stephen Dunn

does it detract from that agreement that he derives it from his religious faith?

Not at all.

I love and appreciate religion, but I hate the way the religious right uses it, for two reasons.

First, they make an entertainment and show of faith, perpetuating the falsehood that if you don't yell your prayers loudly in the street you don't really believe. Beware the overly pious men who need an audience for prayer.

The second problem is that once you tie a specific suite of political positions to religious doctrine you begin making ranking people as cosmically good or evil based on how they feel the country should be run. Beyond being silly, it's destructive to our long-term cohesiveness and I'm convinced it's the road to division and ruin. It's the elimination of the American idea that people of good faith can disagree.

Both sides are guilty of it though, because while the right has demonized skepticism much of the left has demonized faith.

j. ross -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:30:59 PM -- 16 of 1355

Most troubling is that Bush seems willing to say that his god, his interpretation of faith is what should drive our policy and gives credence to our actions as a country.

Wouldn't almost any devout person have to believe this, even if he were not willing to say it. I know if I believed in God Almighty, and that he was a Good God I would be unable to avoid believing that my God, and by extention my faith (which is how I understand Him) should drive our policy. REally, how could you not believe that?

Brigit M -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:32:09 PM -- 17 of 1355

He elaborated on the debate remarks at greater length. Obviously I am not sure I would either, hence the "dabbling" but it was leaning vaguely that way.

Thanks; I haven't yet caught up with that.

The second problem is that once you tie a specific suite of political positions to religious doctrine you begin making ranking people as cosmically good or evil based on how they feel the country should be run. Beyond being silly, it's destructive to our long-term cohesiveness and I'm convinced it's the road to division and ruin. It's the elimination of the American idea that people of good faith can disagree.

Yes, this troubles me too. I'm not sure what draws some to this view and not others; it's nothing as clearcut as sect membership or theological conservatism.

Brigit M -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:33:55 PM -- 18 of 1355

j. ross, I agree with that, actually. The extension described in Greg's final paragraph is where I see trouble. I can believe that I need to put my faith into practice in my leadership without believing that no one of good faith can disagree with me.

GregD -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:45:33 PM -- 19 of 1355
After the power to choose a man wants the power to erase. --Stephen Dunn

Shelby was helping calling Dems to GOTV yesterday, her first outing with the local Dem organization. She was really upset however by how the other Dems there talked about the right in general and people of faith specifically. The left really does have a hate of religion problem. A good portion of religious people are on the right because they empathize politically with the left but don't feel like they're wanted or trusted there. Calling them all "stupid Nazi assholes destroying the country and creating a totalitarian state" is not only untrue but does nothing to win people over, which is what the Dems need to do to avoid falling out of the game altogether.

ktp -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:48:21 PM -- 20 of 1355

Again, this is why we need moderate people like Shelby volunteering, rather than staying home and letting people like Campo canvass your neighborhood.

(Deleted message originally posted by ktp on Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:48:22 PM.)

Brigit M -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:51:49 PM -- 22 of 1355

That's instructive. Perhaps next time I'll volunteer.

Roy Kay -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:58:27 PM -- 23 of 1355
Sluttius Maximus

Suppose someone agrees with you politically, though- does it detract from that agreement that he derives it from his religious faith?

Yes. Because I wonder (fear?) what the stance on the next issue will be. Religion is inherently authoritarian. It derives it's moral impact from the authority that gives it birth and sustains it. That authority is beyond question and criticism or the faith falls.

I regarded Liberation Theology as highly suspect, seeing it as a way to combine the efficient tyranny of Stalin with the mythical Papal power to chase opponents beyond the grave. What we saw in Carter and LT was a failed effort to wave the cross against the cross. In the end authoritarian strains of Christianity were enhanced simply because it conformed more to "Fundemental" and "Orthodox" forms.

GregD -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:58:50 PM -- 24 of 1355
After the power to choose a man wants the power to erase. --Stephen Dunn

The setup was disorganized as hell, too. True to form, Shelby's response when she got home was "I'm taking over that whole organization".

ktp -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 10:59:29 PM -- 25 of 1355

She needs to do that. Really.

j. ross -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:01:09 PM -- 26 of 1355

Just so long as she doesn't let her husband influence her politics.

Equinox -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:24:44 PM -- 27 of 1355

Remember Will Rogers' quip: "I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat."

GythaOgg -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:26:00 PM -- 28 of 1355
"I didn't realize that -- and maybe this explains quite a bit -- is that the news organizations look to Comedy Central for their cues on integrity." - Jon Stewart

Beware the overly pious men who need an audience for prayer.

MATTHEW 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

One of those Bible verses that doesn't get quoted very frequently...

Weaver -- Wednesday, November 03, 2004 -- 11:27:31 PM -- 29 of 1355

Yes, it does.

Check Subscriptions   The Latest   First   Previous   Next   Recent   
Subscribe  
The Perfect World >> Politics >> Religion in Political Discourse