Warning: array_merge(): Argument #2 is not an array in /home/perfecto/perfectworldtoo.us/public_html/preflight/indexFunctions.php on line 3674
Moving Violations
Folders: A Sense of Place ·­ Blogosphere ·­ Chat ·­ Competitive Sports ·­ Current Events ·­ Domestic Sphere ·­ Family ·­ Finance, Careers, & Education ·­ Games & Goofiness ·­ Geek Subjects ·­ Global Policy ·­ Health & Fitness ·­ Literature & The Arts ·­ Marketplace ·­ Meta-Forum ·­ Mostly Christmas ·­ Movies ·­ Politics ·­ Social Policy ·­ TPW Archives ·­ TV Talk ·­ Values & Beliefs
 
The Perfect World >> Social Policy >> Moving Violations

Moving Violations

CalGal -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:27:47 PM

AKA: Your state's other revenue source. How does it work where you live? What's the best way to minimize your damage?

This thread is tagged: ticket, police
tag this thread:   
  (All users will see what tags exist for a thread. Please tag carefully!)
Check Subscriptions   The Latest   First   Previous   Next   Recent   
Enid -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 7 of 784

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

But ask the officer if he has them or not five or ten minutes before you have to go into court; if he does have them, it would look bad if you ask to see them and there they are!

Mistress Manners -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 8 of 784
Still in the running towards becoming America's Next Top Model.

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

Just showing up gives you a 50/50 chance of a better outcome. Often, the cops don't show. I agree with the groveling approach.

gsand -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 9 of 784

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

Also, check all the information on the ticket. I once got off because the officer had written the wrong city down on the ticket. If any of that information is incorrect, the judge has to dismiss it.

CalGal -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 10 of 784
I remember a time, back in the late 90s, when I thought nonsense like this mattered somewhat more than I do now. Now I see well-educated people yammering about the birth control choices of their daughters, or gay marriage, and I think they are morons.

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

In California, you have three choices: pay the ticket, go to court and tell the judge your story and agree to take whatever you're given, or plead not guilty and have a full trial.

Like J-Ro, I went to court once about 12 years ago because I was annoyed at getting a ticket for "running a red light" when I was making a left turn from a one-way into a one way on a red light. To me, that was a whole different ballgame than running a red light, which is why the ticket was so high.

I took the option of telling the judge my story, and like J-Ro, I saw the various excuses that worked and didn't work, and by the time it was my turn I had completely changed my strategy and recited with rote and duty, "It was yellow when I went through the intersection, I was definitely more than 3/4 of the way through before the light changed" and the ticket was dismissed.

Since that time, I just paid the fine until I was once forced to go to court because I'd been driving over 90. This was a miracle in disguise. I got that ticket knocked down and was sent to traffic school. I hadn't known I could go to traffic school, and that was when I learned that traffic school was not about "you can only go for tickets every 18 months" but "you can only go to traffic school every 18 months". By this time, I was paying $500/month for insurance despite no accidents, no claims, and oh by the way no coverage to speak of, which meant I had been paying ungodly insurance for a long time while accepting tickets that I could have wiped off my record. I also learned that it pays to go tell the judge your story no matter what, since I have since wiped out another ticket through traffic school, also by going to traffic court, even though it was originally ineligible.

I have now been--PRAISE JESUS--nearly two years without a ticket--PRAISE JESUS--and that means I have only one ticket on my record for the past 3 years--PRAISE JESUS--and if I get a ticket I can wipe it out with traffic school--PRAISE JESUS--and pretty soon I might have a totally clean record, thank all the kismet and karma that finally came back to me.

But the long and the short of this story is, CJ, that due to my considerable experience with traffic court and tickets, and despite the fact that I am clearly a moron for just paying rather than exploring all the options, I can tell you that your reasons are utterly without any merit whatsoever, not even the one about the speed being silly for the area--in fact, that's the most dubious of all, because who the hell are you to decide the limit is unreasonable?

If you have the option of telling your tale to the judge without a trial, then do it. If you take the trouble to show up, your fee will almost certainly be knocked down, and you might have the ability to go to traffic school and get it knocked off completely. There is also the bare possibility that you'll get off scot free, if you come up with a good story (hint: your current story sucks dead rocks).

If you don't have the option of telling your tale to the judge, that means you either pay the fine or demand a trial. Think very fucking carefully about whether or not you want to go to court, because while you might luck out on a technicality, you also might not, and if you don't, they will do whatever the hell they can to punish you for making them go to the trouble and expense of a trial when it was just a ticket, because otherwise every aggravated dumbfuck would come to court and increase the cost of writing tickets and they don't want that, because that's a key source of revenue. They are therefore quick to beat the living shit out of any hapless idiot who thinks they have the right to eat away at their profit margins and isn't lucky enough to have a cop fail to show up. And in these times of budget cutbacks, they will not be letting many technicalities through.

You don't have a good case, and your reasons for being upset at the ticket are moronic. Telling a judge your sad tale for a reduced fine is one thing. Telling anything other than an extremely good tale for dismissal at a trial is a recipe for disaster, including the potential for a bigger fine.

genaverage -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 11 of 784

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

Sometimes you get offered a deal with the poor schmuck misdemeanor DA just for pleading not guilty and asking for a court date. Either way, it does not hurt you to plead not guilty and at least initiate fighting it.

Cal's right that the unreasonable speed limit defense usually does not work (sometimes it does if it's a known speed trap) but in some states you can argue the 85% rule; if the public traffic engineers have determined that 85% of the traffic (or whatever the local percentage may be) speeds through that area, you can sometimes get the ticket dismissed.

Speedtrap.org has some links to some useful info.

CalGal -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 12 of 784
I remember a time, back in the late 90s, when I thought nonsense like this mattered somewhat more than I do now. Now I see well-educated people yammering about the birth control choices of their daughters, or gay marriage, and I think they are morons.

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

Either way, it does not hurt you to plead not guilty and at least initiate fighting it.

This is spectacularly untrue, particularly in California.

genaverage -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 13 of 784

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

By "initiate fighting it" I don't mean getting all the way to having your day in court. Pleading not guilty and getting a court date is initiating fighting it. You can change the plea any time up to and including the moment you appear before the judge and it's not going to change things. It can be worthwhile to see if you're going to get an offer to keep you from going to court.

CalGal -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 14 of 784
I remember a time, back in the late 90s, when I thought nonsense like this mattered somewhat more than I do now. Now I see well-educated people yammering about the birth control choices of their daughters, or gay marriage, and I think they are morons.

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

In California, there is no advantage to asking for a court date. They give you excellent reasons not to do so. Once you've asked for one, you've put them to inordinate expense and you must pay. No one is going to give you an offer.

genaverage -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 15 of 784

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

What do they do?

CalGal -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 16 of 784
I remember a time, back in the late 90s, when I thought nonsense like this mattered somewhat more than I do now. Now I see well-educated people yammering about the birth control choices of their daughters, or gay marriage, and I think they are morons.

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

What do you mean, what do they do? I described it, above.

catling -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 17 of 784
The best wedding sparklers are the long-lasting #14 Gold. They are also very effective in exorcisms. All sparklers are wonderful for bringing and ridding curses.- sparkler sales web site

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

In Florida if you ask for a court date, you have a tendency to end up with court costs and fines being exactly what the ticket is, if you lose, but most of the time the points don't go on your license if you do court.

More Sunshine State weirdness, I guess.

cj griffin -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 18 of 784
There's a fine, fine line between a fairy tale and a lie.

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

You don't have a good case, and your reasons for being upset at the ticket are moronic.

I totally agree! FWIW, we don't have traffic school here, just an appeal to a judge. If I get there and see my cop, I can just say "I no longer contest the charge and will pay the fine right now." If nothing else, I've bought myself two months to pay.

CalGal -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 19 of 784
I remember a time, back in the late 90s, when I thought nonsense like this mattered somewhat more than I do now. Now I see well-educated people yammering about the birth control choices of their daughters, or gay marriage, and I think they are morons.

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

No traffic school? You must have really low insurance rates.

cj griffin -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 20 of 784
There's a fine, fine line between a fairy tale and a lie.

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

I pay $1300 a year for me (2000 Honda) and DH ('94 Hyundai). Is that low? It doesn't seem that way to me!

CalGal -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 21 of 784
I remember a time, back in the late 90s, when I thought nonsense like this mattered somewhat more than I do now. Now I see well-educated people yammering about the birth control choices of their daughters, or gay marriage, and I think they are morons.

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

Did you happen to notice the number that I mentioned earlier? Granted, they were using my ability to get lots of tickets as an excuse to get me to pay for their old people. But even before that I was paying $200/month. I am finally down to something approaching normal and am paying 1200/year for a 7 year old Honda.

Piccie -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 22 of 784

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

From what I understand, it is possible to do traffic school twice within 18 months in CA subject to approval by the judge. Also, everyone I know who has bothered to contest their ticket has gotten the fine reduced. So it's definitely worth showing up if you have the time.

Jimmy Page -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 23 of 784

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

cj-

One last thought for you. I live in a State where anything over 80 is considered reckless driving and you have no choice but to go to court on it-- it's a requirement. You also get 6 points for that sucker. Ouch.

So... I got a ticket for 87 in a 65 in a small rural county. I figure well I did it, I should just go to court, wait for my 2 hours to get called, plead guilty, pay my fine and be on my way.

My wife says, if you have to go anyway, try to get out of it to save us on the insurance.

I called a couple of lawyers I knew in the area who told me that the traffic judge HATES speeders and actually assigns massive fines. He also gives jail time for anything over 90. They all recommended that I hire a local lawyer who knows the prosector and the judge.

I follow their advice, hire a lawyer and send her the $250 she charges to represent me. Of course, then I have second thoughts as I'm driving down to court to meet her, thinking, no way is this lawyer gonna save me $250.

So she goes to do her thing and talks to the prosecutor before the docket call starts. We're on the second half of the docket so I have some time to kill and go in to watch the first half.

First guy who goes up has been charged with 88 in a 65. He's nicely dressed in a suit and says guilty your honor, I really have no excuse. The judge responds with, thank you for your honesty. That will be a $1000 fine. If you cannot pay today, you have 30 days to pay. I think, oh shit. That would have been me.

The next guy had a ticket for 86 in a 65. He tried to give some crap excuse and got hit with a $1250 fine. The third person, a woman, 92 in a 65. $1000 plus 48 hours in jail.

I go outside to find that my lawyer has cut a deal with the guy who is prosecuting the second half of the docket. They cut the speed to 79. $150 fine and only 4 points. (Apparently, my being nice to the cop had a lot to do with it, because they give the officers a say in whether or not to cut a deal). Needless to say, I took the deal and drove away very happy.

What that taught me is that the best way to deal with these tickets if you don't really have a valid defense is to talk to the local prosecutors to cut a deal. In smaller jurisdictions, they might talk to you before your court date. I got a speeding ticket in another state, WVa for example. I called to find out who the prosecutor was and they told me. I called him up, told him that I was speeding, but didn't want the points on my record and asked if we could cut a deal. We just BSed for about 15 minutes and it ended up with him agreeing to call the cop to see if there was anything unusual about my case. He called back the next day, said that the officer said I was real friendly and that I had a nice car and that they had decided to cut me a break and nolle pros the case. Ticket dismissed.

Bottom lines, be nice to the cops. Call the prosecutor. If the prosector doesn't do deals till the morning of court, get there early, figure out who the prosecutor is and see if you can cut a deal.

JayKay -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 24 of 784

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

Jimmy, where the hell do you live? Remind me to never drive there.

Jimmy Page -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 25 of 784

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

The wonderful Commonwealth of Virginia. It's not so bad up in Fairfax County, but trust me. Any time I drive south on I-95 and see the sign "Entering Hanover County," I set that cruise control to 70.

JayKay -- Wednesday, July 16, 2003 -- 07:28:56 PM -- 26 of 784

(Message has been moved from The Bar Association of the Perfect World)

Yikes! I had no idea!

Check Subscriptions   The Latest   First   Previous   Next   Recent   
Subscribe  
The Perfect World >> Social Policy >> Moving Violations