Warning: array_merge(): Argument #2 is not an array in /home/perfecto/perfectworldtoo.us/public_html/preflight/indexFunctions.php on line 3674
Front Page Portal
Folders: A Sense of Place ·­ Blogosphere ·­ Chat ·­ Competitive Sports ·­ Current Events ·­ Domestic Sphere ·­ Family ·­ Finance, Careers, & Education ·­ Games & Goofiness ·­ Geek Subjects ·­ Global Policy ·­ Health & Fitness ·­ Literature & The Arts ·­ Marketplace ·­ Meta-Forum ·­ Mostly Christmas ·­ Movies ·­ Politics ·­ Social Policy ·­ TPW Archives ·­ TV Talk ·­ Values & Beliefs
The Perfect World >> Current Events >> Front Page Portal
Shooting in Sutherland Church
related link: Texas Church Shooting: Who Were the Victims of the Sutherland Springs Massacre?

A pastor friend of mine posed the question: If we were founding the United States today, would we have a Second Amendment? Are we satisfied with this state of affairs?

Damara -- Tuesday, November 07, 2017 -- 08:19:10 PM -- 1648 of 1648

Comments

Pincher Martin:

I'm satisfied with it.

This sick man acquired guns only because the government didn't follow through on its own laws by making sure he couldn't get them. He was then shot by a man who legally carried a firearm.

November 08, 2017, 12:28:09 AM
Damara:

Pincher,So this is the trade off and you are happy with it. Schools, concerts, movie theaters, workplaces, streets -- all at risk from gun violence. Homes, children shooting children, children shooting parents, you are satisfied with it,

The violent privilege of the 2nd Amendment over the 1st -- freedom of assembly -- you are happy with it.

The destabilization of civil society by people carrying long rifles to chase away the boogeyman of federal government overrreach, which only happens to the poor and disenfranchised -- you are satisfied with it.

Would you be satisfied with it if the shooters were African Americans? Would you be satisfied with the state of affairs if the shooters were Muslim Americans? Would you be satisfied with it if the shooters were Asian Americans? Would you be satisfied with the unfettered right to bear arms if the shooters weren't white men?

Satisfied with it? Really?

Oh that's right -- it's the only thing you can say. After all, someone is holding a gun to your head.

November 08, 2017, 03:38:58 PM
Pincher Martin:

Tamara,

Yes, I'm satisfied with it. The risk is minimal, and the dramatic and tragic consequences you seek to inflate over these terrible incidents is minor. I've lived nearly my entire life in gun-loving communities and never once felt threatened by guns.

Crime is not primarily caused by these lunatics with guns. Far more people have died because of the policies you support - liberal policies which don't allow the police to do their jobs in inner cities, for example - than will ever die from semi-automatic rifles. It's not even close.

Nothing destabilizes our society more than the politics you support. Nothing. I would feel completely safe walking into a church today; I would not feel safe walking into the neighborhoods of Baltimore, Ferguson, and Chicago, which have been unfortunate enough to be taken over by the kind of policies and politicians that you support.

November 09, 2017, 01:11:00 AM
Damara:

OK. You are wrong. Thousands of people in the US die of gun violence. No other nation has an epidemic of sickness like this. If in fact there were people dying violently of a disease, you bet we would stop it. It would be unacceptable. We have passed all kinds of public health laws, whether confronting death due to traffic accidents, or illness, etc. Why do you continue to say that gun violence is all just a one-off situation instead of seeing the bigger picture?

How can you not see this as a public health and safety issue? Why do we privilege gun ownership in this country and say it's some sort of freedom tax?

Jesus Christ. What will it take -- would you even say, yup, God bless the Second Amendment if you saw someone you loved shot down in front of you? They are just guns, people! There's nothing sacred about them! Why can't you see what is in front of your nose?!

November 09, 2017, 08:47:15 PM
Pincher Martin:

Damara,

OK. You are wrong. Thousands of people in the US die of gun violence. No other nation has an epidemic of sickness like this. If in fact there were people dying violently of a disease, you bet we would stop it.

Have you ever looked at the stats for gun homicides in the U.S.?

More than half are caused by one group: black men. Thats's six percent of the U.S. population accountable for over half of gun homicides. Their victims are generally not found congregating in churches or at country western concerts. Their victims are typically other black men they interact with on the street.

These flashy mass murderers get a lot of press, but they are not the driver of the homicide rate in America.

You're also wrong about the international comparison. Gun violence in much of Latin America, for example, is much higher than it is in the US. Mexico, to name one Latin American country, has strict gun laws (although it is legal under certain conditions for private Mexican citizens to own firearms). Yet Mexico's homicide and gun violence rates are both several orders of magnitude higher than in the U.S.

Brazil has even stricter gun control laws than Mexico, yet 90 percent of homicides in that crime-ridden country are committed with guns.

You're the typical liberal who thinks that the world begins and ends with Western Europe.

You're also wrong about this latest incident in Texas. Under current law, this man should've been prevented from ever getting his hands on legal firearms. Yet the law and the government you trust to execute it failed to do so. The answer to that failure is not more gun control laws.

November 09, 2017, 09:20:17 PM
Damara:

Yeah, see, I look at unstable nations like Colombia, Brazil, and Mexico -- two of which are arguably narcostates -- and I'm not comforted that our gun deaths rank up there with theirs. I like to think that the US is safer, more rational, and with better options for its citizens than violence. But hey, they are narco-states, we live in a NRA-state.

I think it's telling that these are the nations you can bring to bear as your examples. You should add Yemen, by the way -- I believe gun deaths in Yemen significantly outpace those in the US. Whoo-hoo! We're safer than Yemen!

November 10, 2017, 05:00:24 PM
Pincher Martin:

Yeah, see, I look at unstable nations like Colombia, Brazil, and Mexico -- two of which are arguably narcostates -- and I'm not comforted that our gun deaths rank up there with theirs.

You claimed that "[n]o other nation has an epidemic of sickness like this." Not only is that statement not true. There are many nations that have far worse levels of gun violence than the U.S Sometimes they are five, ten, twenty times higher. Not even a majority of them are narco-states.

You continually like to fit in untrue statements like this - "I'm not comforted that our gun deaths rank up there with theirs." - into your argument because you want to assume the U.S. is uniquely bad.

Our gun deaths do not rank up with theirs. The U.S. intentional homicide rate is only 94th in the world. Slightly higher than halfway through the roster of nations and territories. Those stats, of course, include not only gun-related homicides, but with all other weapons as well. Countries with higher homicide rates than the U.S. include Greenland, the British Virgin Islands, Costa Rica, Argentina, and Lithuania. They include countries from the regions of SE Asia, Central Asia, Europe, Africa, the middle East, much of Latin America, and the Caribbean.

Yes, almost all of Western Europe and East Asia have lower homicide rates than the United States. But then most of those countries do not small dysfunctional subpopulations which commit the majority of gun-related homicides, either. Take out that population and our homicide rate would drop to levels not too far above Canada and France.

November 10, 2017, 06:31:36 PM
Pincher Martin:

And note how Damara still doesn't address the fact that this sicko should've never been able to legally buy guns if the government had done its job.

November 11, 2017, 04:57:55 AM



URL:

Descriptive title for link:


The Perfect World >> Current Events >> Front Page Portal
Folders: A Sense of Place ·­ Blogosphere ·­ Chat ·­ Competitive Sports ·­ Current Events ·­ Domestic Sphere ·­ Family ·­ Finance, Careers, & Education ·­ Games & Goofiness ·­ Geek Subjects ·­ Global Policy ·­ Health & Fitness ·­ Literature & The Arts ·­ Marketplace ·­ Meta-Forum ·­ Mostly Christmas ·­ Movies ·­ Politics ·­ Social Policy ·­ TPW Archives ·­ TV Talk ·­ Values & Beliefs