Trying to Conceive
Julie C. --Monday, July 15, 2002 -- 02:30:49 PM
Same old topic, new home. Everybody's welcome, no matter what your TTC status.
infertility,health,pregnancySo, so not a surprise that you feel anger, India. You were cheated, and it's not fair. (Miscarriages and infertility bring out my inner five year old.) It feels like a horrible cheat when pregnancy is simple and normal and clockworky for everyone else and you have suffer and struggle. It suck, sucks, sucks.
I'm very sorry, India.
And for Marya and Heide, both of whom I have a personal stake in and hate to see sad.
I am bored and disillusioned, and have tried to remove my emotions from the process. I'm sure it's self-preservation, somewhat, but I have made a conscious decision to get off the emotional roller coaster. I'm still temping, testing and supplementing, but trying to to think of things as Red Letter Days anymore. It sucks enough that I couldn't just go off bcp and get pregnant, but the constant attention to it has really affected me.
I know how you feel, Marya and Laura. It's not fun for sex to become all about the calendar, especially when I'm doing daily temping and charting. I can see giving up trying if I don't get pregnant pretty soon--in February/March it'll be a year. And I just don't want to go the route of many doctor visits, injections, IVF, etc. It would be different if I were in my 30s and trying to get pregnant, but I'm turning 42 this month and feeling how physically difficult running around after a toddler would be. I can still do a few more Clomid cycles, but if I'm not pregnant after a year, I'm probably going to hang it up. Luckily Mr. D feels the same way. At least we can say we tried. (And if I do get pregnant, of course, that will be great!)
It'll be a year for us in February too. I refuse to conceive from bad sex, though, so we do give ourselves permission to skip it if we're both irreversibly Not In The Mood even if it's timely.
That's smart. It was very good for us to give up the TTC sex in favor of "let's have sex" sex. We had a rerun of the former lately (sample for IVF should be collected after "no more than five and no less than two" days of abstinence, according to our clinic. Way to regiment the fun out of stuff.
I am so, so sorry to hear so many people sounding so downhearted.
I am too.
I'm feeling oddly positive, myself, for no good reason at all. I seem to be in this zen space where I figure I'll probably conceive sometime in the next three years, so somehow each month isn't feeling like a crisis.
It feels like a horrible cheat when pregnancy is simple and normal and clockworky for everyone else and you have suffer and struggle. It suck, sucks, sucks.
Word.
It does suck not to conceive quickly. But I don't feel cheated -- I like to see people succeed quickly, as evidence that it's possible.
I have a love-hate relationship with the Clear Blue Fertility Monitor. The love part is that now if we're in the mood and it isn't a high/peak fertility day, it is kind of more fun - just a big relief. The hate part is that on the high/peak days, there is extra pressure, which makes for not so much fun.
Our close friends had their baby a couple of weeks ago - the baby that was conceived after they'd been *dating* for less time than we'd been trying to get pregnant. I mentioned the baby to my mom, who tried to put me on a guilt trip about "does that give you any thoughts?" I don't know why I'm not telling my parents, when I'm telling the whole internet (and many people I know in real life, too.) But I have this incredible, visceral reaction that I do NOT want to tell them. Maybe because my mom is a nurse and I don't want her opinion, informed though it is. I will tell them if we ever completely give up, but in the meantime I'm not mentioning it.
One of my coworkers is pregnant. I was thrilled that she conceived very easily - it disproved a different coworker who was incredibly snarky (and inadvertently hurtful) about how if you don't do the whole temping/charting/TCOYF thing that you can't possibly expect to get pregnant. Also she is not being obnoxious about it, possibly because my reaction was not completely enthusiastic and she's pretty sensitive to my moods.
I'm in a pretty neutral place, where I am finding the positive in failure. I'm going to a set of meetings this weekend with a hard-drinking group. I'm glad not to have to make excuses about why I'm not drinking this time. I'm very overcommitted, which is making me apathetic, which makes me think it is for the best that I don't have a little someone to find a Halloween costume for, etc.
Dude, I haven't told anyone in real life at all. Only my MIL and one SIL know about the miscarriage. None of it ever felt real enough to talk about.
How stupid. I wonder what percentage of women with children actually charted? I bet a teeny tiny number.
A vanishingly small number, according to the midwife I saw when I was pregnant with Maddy.
It took me a long, long time before I started telling anyone. And then for a long, long time I had only told one or two of my closest friends. Well, and the entire internet, but you don't count. Then at some point I decided it was asinine to keep it a secret, since it was affecting my responses to other people. So I told several more people, including my boss.
The more I think about the clueless coworker, the more I realize how incredibly bitchy that sentiment is. I actually suspect she has been trying for a while too, so it is possible that it is self-recrimination, but even so. Give it up.
I'm trying to not let the pressure of '3 more cycles!' '2 more cycles' mess with me. My RE is pretty insistant that we move on to IUI in February, and I feel like we just NOW after several months of trying, have all the kinks worked out. I'm now ovulating with regularity, and the Crinone is helping with my luteal phase defect. So I'm not ready to jump on the turkey baster band wagon quite yet.
Laura - I understand what you're saying, but the turkey baster bandwagon really isn't that bad. My two, who are products of it, don't appear any different from the children who've been conceived without charting, ovulation sticks, acupuncture, vitex or Clomid.
Sarah - I'm not disparaging the act, or the product of it, it's just to me, that elevates my infertility to a whole 'nother level and I'm not ready to accept that yet.
Me too. I told my mum when we got married "we're going to try to start a family asap, DO NOT bring it up until I tell you some good news," and that's it. TG has told people in a general way that we want to start a family, and I told him to knock it off. No one knows about my miscarriage except, TG, mum, my boss, and nosy roommate who got all pushy about guessing and "wah poor me, I feel left out because you guys are trying to keep secrets from me." Blecch. I will be very glad when we move.
I don't want to talk about it with anyone. I dread being The Victim that everyone looks at with pity and walks on eggshells around and says "are you.... OKAY? I mean, REALLY?"
Anecdote: my husband was out of town all the time when I was trying to get pregnant with my first son. And I mean all the time. He was home for 1-2 days every 2 weeks or so, so I charted to see when the best times would be. I got pregnant quickly the first time, and miscarried. The second time I got pregnant, he was home for 2 days in a month, and it took.
My husband got a job at home after our son was born, and it took me almost 3 years to get pregnant again, and we tried fairly quickly after my first baby because I wasn't getting any younger. I charted for all 3 pregnancies, and it does get really old really fast. It wasn't so bad the first 2 times because my husband was gone all the time, so we were really glad to see each other, IYKWIM.
I'm sorry to see so many people here that are down-hearted and discouraged, and all I can say is that I hope things work out for everyone.
I'm sorry that everyone is feeling so pessimistic, too.
I sort of am as well, but for a different reason, I guess. It seems I don't have much trouble getting pregnant, but I want my baby back. I'm twiddling right now and not feeling particularly hopeful about it and it occurred to me today that I almost can't remember why I was so desperate to get pregnant again after Joseph died. I'm tired of thinking about it.
Oh Van, thank you. I was coming back here thinking about editing because I didn't want to come off like I was trying to one-up everyone in the pain sweepstakes, or anything.
I hope everyone here can get off this stupid rollercoaster soon.
RBG, I wish I knew what to say. May you have strength and peace in your mourning for Joseph.
edit: cross-posted with you. It would never occur to me to think you are one-upping. You are just talking about what is happening to/with you, as everyone else is talking about what is happening to and with them.
I know that feeling, RBG, where at times I won't talk about things for fear of looking like I'm shopping for sympathy. But all of this takes such a long time to sort itself out emotionally and you just have to deal with it as it comes, whenever that is.
We're also heading into the holiday season, which produces mixed and difficult emotions in people for all kinds of reasons.
RBG, don't edit! I think there are ups and downs; I guess I can't imagine that you won't get un-bored and remember why it is important to you after a while. Maybe I'm projecting, since I know I have been more and less into it as time kept on passing with no change. Also, for me, I don't read OGABP, so I don't necessarily clue in on who has had what experience. Being reminded isn't a bad thing.
Also slightly depressing, I'm enjoying the philosophical discussion as much or more as I enjoy the more technical/concrete discussions.
RBG, don't worry about 'one-upping'. I think of this as a place where we can all bitch about whatever our personal issue is - for some people, it's charting, for some (me), the joy of Crinone, and grumbling about having to escalate the issue, etc, etc...and I feel bad about whining when I think about what you've gone through, and what Andrea has gone through - and I think that if it weren't for the support system that we have here, it would be pretty much unbearable.
RGB, I can't imagine what you've been through and I'm sorry it's so hard right now.
I'm not really sad, I'm just kind of bored with the whole thing. I sometimes wonder if I should stop thinking about it so much and just get on with my life. Like waiting for a kettle to boil.
Meanwhile, Andrew just told me his travel schedule. He'll be here for the next 12 days, but then he'll be gone most of the next two months. That includes some travel together for Thanksgiving and Christmas, but he'll be away from home for about 7 weeks. I don't really mind, but it's hard on this whole "trying" thing.
Andrea, I've still got all my fingers crossed for you and I don't want you to be sad.
RBG, I'd be sad and angry, too. Deborah's right, there's no schedule for letting it all out. I still get sad when I think about Joseph, too, and I don't even know you.
Waiting for a kettle to boil is exactly what it feels like.
Things are going well here-- I've got no reason to believe it didn't work-- but I'm melancholy anyway, I've got to admit. Mostly because the specter of falure *is* hanging over us and we have no backup plan, but also because I, too, am tired of this. I (we) need to have a baby or not have a baby. "Maybe baby" is exhausting. Oh, and because I keep thinking about my own miscarriage and not feeling as over it as I'm "supposed" to be. Obviously, i'm afraid of being disappointed again.
I'm sorry Andrew will be away so long, Heide.
I just got back from the RE. I really like him. He did bloodwork, and exam and a vaginal ultrasound. He thinks I may not be ovulating when I think I am, and that I may not be ovulating properly. I go back Friday for more bloodwork and another exam and u/s. He has an aggressive plan laid out to start Clomid in a few weeks, depending on the bloodwork results. I feel pretty good about it.
Mister and I have also decided that we will probably not go to extreme measures, but who knows? The doc says we might want to try artificial insemination combined with Clomid. But it all hinges on my bloodwork today and Friday. We'll see. I really liked the doctor, though, and feel good about him.
There's something about this that sounds all Hey, Dude, where's my XTreem Fertility! about it. I'm getting loopy imagining the Xtreme Conception Olympics.
I'm so sorry for the length of time and boredom and angst and anger and all of it. It's tough and I wish it weren't.
A new team sport!
Oh, and I have to say Mister was pretty horrified by his first exposure to What Goes On. He knew, theoretically, what happened at a visit, but being there for a pelvic and an ultrasound...he kept saying "Better you than me!".
I saw my regular gyno today, dropped in to get a flu shot and say hi. It was nice to be back on the normal women's floor (ob/gyn is on the floor below the high-tech docs). Next job: staying there.
She was great. I love her. But she asked if I wanted to make an appointment and I just couldn't, yet. She will be my obstetrician but I have no idea if I need one, you know?
Everything I have is crossed for you, Andrea.
Veep, I hate to say "It depends", but, it depends. For me, I take Clomid days 5-9 and was ovulating on day 21 - but then it changed to day 20, and this cycle, day 16. I would start testing with OPKs 5 days after you finish the clomid - it would suck to miss the LH surge.
Does Clomid have side effects?
Yes-- some people have mood swings and some have thicker cervical mucous and/or thinner uterine lining.
Or less/dryer CM, which is why doctors often recommend pairing Clomid with IUI.
My side effects: mood swings, major hot flashes, less CM and painful ovulation - the 48 hours leading up to it are pretty uncomfortable.
C'mon, you'd still be nervous without the beta. At least this gives you a signpost.
edit: You're going to be nervous the whole way, which is natural considering what you've gone through to get to this point, enhanced by your general personality makeup (not meant as a slam! I like mildly neurotic smart people). Having the signposts will enable you to breathe gradually easier; or, if you get bad news (PLEASE NO), you will not be going on for nine months thinking otherwise.
Andrea, I felt all pregnanty long before the two weeks was up -- I was scared to death to even hope I wasn't imagining things, but my best friend finally got me to admit that I thought it had worked. (NOT THAT I WAS PREGNANT OR ANYTHING.) Then on the way home from that visit with her, I stopped at a grocery store, bought a jar of kosher dills, and ate the whole thing on the way home.
What can we think up to distract you? Can you go on a trip? Visit a friend? See some silly movies? Get a massage? Eat somewhere wonderful? Buy shoes?
I wish I knew what that felt like...I'm in the 2 week wait thumb twiddling period (will test on the 12th) and I'm trying not to over-analyze everything...but my nipples hurt! And they have no reason to.
Thanks for the refresher, guys. Unfortunately, OPKs don't work for me (unless they suddenly do, for some reason), so I guess we'll just have to go at it for as long as it takes. Funny, I've taken 4 doses and no major mood swings yet. Almost makes me wonder if it's not strong enough.
My ob that I left told me that intercourse every other day, days 10-20 would be fiiiiiiiiiiiine, but I didn't ovulate until day 21 or 22. As opposed to not at all.
For me, it feels like: sore, larger breasts, vaguely warm achy feeling in pelvis with occasional cramp, appetite weirdness, and recoiling from smells. I had all those last time too but last time I wasn't getting shot up nightly.
Two week waits are maddening.
Pregnanty felt weird, hard to describe -- not exactly PMS-y, but not sure I'd have been able to distinguish before the fact. I'm sure part of it was just being so intensely focused on whether I was feeling anything. My abdomen felt vaguely ... full. Smells and tastes were more intense, but in a good way. I really craved sour/salty flavors. The slight queasiness, unbelieveable sleepiness and frequent need to pee came a bit later.
Hi everyone. I've not been posting for the past couple of months, but I have been reading this thread. I was going to come in and vent about being tired and discouraged and I see that I am (unfortunately) not alone.
I'm getting ready for an IUI and I went in to my dr's office for my U/S and bloodwork and there was some mix-up on the sign-in sheet and they MISSED me. First for the u/s and then for the blood draw. Argh. So an appt. that usually takes 15 or 20 min, tops, ended up taking a FUCKING HOUR. On a day when I really really really did not have the extra time to spend. SO frustrating. I held it together but cried in the car.
I'm just so so tired right now of having to miss work or be late for work, jabbing myself with a needle twice a day, the frequent ultrasounds, the blood draws . . . . ARGH.
The good news is that I had a 20.5mm follicle today so I will probably do the IUI on Saturday. Ironically, now the "twiddling" part of the cycle is a relief because it's JUST waiting. No needles, no u/s, no blood draws. We are adding progesterone this cycle but in suppository form. (Not sure if I need to bother whitefonting in this thread).
I'm seriously considering taking the next cycle off, if this one doesn't work. I didn't think I would say that ever because I feel pretty pressed for time (I'm 42 in March) but you really need a break from all this stuff. Sigh.
Marcasite, I'm sorry to hear of the frustration and office mishaps. I just searched on your posts to remember your situation--I went through a quick 1st conception and then secondary infertility, too. Is this your second IUI with the RE you starting seeing, then?
Marcasite, how frustrating for you. I'm sorry it's so trying...and white fonting is not necessary in this thread.
Yes, this is my second IUI with this RE, and with injectible drugs (currently Repronex and Follistim). I did 2 Clomid/IUI cycles earlier this year with my regular OB.
I just hate the feeling of being "on hold." My job really sucks right now and if I was not TTC, I would have looked for a new one months ago. I'm kicking myself now for not doing it then because work has only gotten steadily worse, but I did not want to be starting a new job if I was going to be pregnant soon. Ha!
Edit--Laura--thanks! I won't whitefont! I will say it proudly! Progesterone! Vaginal! Suppositories!!! (but injectibles make suppositories look good)
Well, that explains a lot. Just the side effect you want for women who are already high strung. Andrea, what form of progesterone are you taking?
Marcasite, I use Crinone, which is a progesterone cream - it's kind of like yeast infection cream - it's expensive but is apparently the only progesterone cream that's FDA approved for use in pregnancy. I bitch mightily about the messiness of it, so no worries about suppositories!
Re: Clomid and mood swings--the first time I took it, I didn't really notice any side effects. This second time, I definitely had the moodiness (that's a euphemism for bitchiness).
I haven't had any mood swings from any of the drugs, but I guarantee that "bitchiness" as a side effect would go completely unnoticed since I am in that state much of the time anyway, particularly at work.
I've got red marks and bruises all over my stomach from the damn injectibles though. The Repronex seems to be particularly bad for that--I'm not sure why.
I was able to return my unused drugs to the pharmacy, Andrea, so you should check into that possibility. I got about $350 back, so it was no small shakes.
Pregnanty felt weird, hard to describe -- not exactly PMS-y, but not sure I'd have been able to distinguish before the fact. I'm sure part of it was just being so intensely focused on whether I was feeling anything. My abdomen felt vaguely ... full. Smells and tastes were more intense, but in a good way. I really craved sour/salty flavors. The slight queasiness, unbelieveable sleepiness and frequent need to pee came a bit later.
The drugs cause can cause every single one of these symptoms, whether or not you are pregnant. Of course, as evidenced by the various TPW IVF success stories, so can pregnancy.
Then on the way home from that visit with her, I stopped at a grocery store, bought a jar of kosher dills, and ate the whole thing on the way home.
Heh. The only symptom I had during my (very brief) pregnancy in February was right before my beta when I was in line at the grocery store and I knew that I would die, just die, if I did not buy and eat that Chunky Kit Kat bar Right.That.Very.Minute. The checkout girl watched me wolf it down with fascinated horror.
I hope you don't mind me butting in here (although I think I should be required to change my name ... too many Julies in here).
I have a quick question and was told you ladies might have some advice.
Long-story-short: I'm on my first round of injectables and have completed 4 nights of shots (today is cd7). Three decent-sized follicles for cd7 = 9, 10.5, 11. But my E2 is only 65. Seems a little low to me. But I'm new to injectables.
Any 'been there, dont that' ladies who can give me their thoughts? Straight-shooting honesty appreciated.
Thanks.
Julie L, I don't know the answer to your question but I just have to comment on the weirdness of you being a Julie L because I used to be a Julie L before I got married and I remember Julie C mentioning that she used to be a Julie F. Wierd.
Andrea, ironic that I was the one to talk you down, considering I used to be the queen of early testing, with my pee strips lined up on the bathroom counter with the number dpo written on them so I could compare the lines 5000 times a day.
Welcome, Julie L. I just happen to have *my* cd7 numbers handy . . . I had several follicles all less than 12, and estradiol of 59. The nurse had described this as "not much going on" and they increased my injectible dosage after that. I started with Repronex 150 and Follistim 150, and they upped both to 225.
But, today was cd13 and I had one nice follicle at 20.5 and estradiol at 311. So the increased dosage did the trick. What are you taking now and did they change it at all based on your numbers?
Julie F - I was a Julie G before I got married. Guess that throws a wrench in the whole game.
Just talked to my nurse. I think all's OK. They have me on a low-dose protocol and apparently the follicle/E2 level relationship isn't 1-to-1 at this stage. I'll try to trust her and assume that she's not lying to placate me.
edited to respond: Marcasite - I'm on a really low dose -- just Follistim 50. I'm full of cysts and prone to over-stimming, so the doctor wants me to stay on that dose. He seems to be happy with what he sees thus far. Apparently the hardest part of stimming for people in my situation is simply waiting it out, since the doctor is purposely treading lightly.
Julie L., my recollection is that they're looking for an E2 of 200-600 per mature folllicle (over 18mm, so you've got a ways to go). My CD7 E2 was 139 (I miraculously found it earlier in this thread) and I had 14 follicles. That was pronounced to be good for the number of follicles I had, so you're probably in the right range.
The best part of all this is that Julie L is a RL friend of mine and works right down the hall from me. We confuse people IRL too.
Kate, you were stimming for IVF, too. Julie L is stimming for IUI. I think her E2 sounds fine. Hope I'm right--I sent her here to ask because I knew many of you had done injectables and I have zero experience with those.
Julie L, welcome and I hope things go well for you. You really may want to consider changing your moniker- poor Lorelei here was Amanda until confusion with me forced her to change it, and the three or four Annes are always wondering who posted what.
(edit) Real-life friend of Julie C's? Good credentials.
Well, yeah. Poor Krista.
In mememe news, today is cd1, after a perfectly respectable 13 day LP and a normal cycle. (I'm assuming this means my last cycle was some total aberration designed to drive me crazy.) I'm going to get FSH, LH, E2, DHEAs, prolactin and inhibin B drawn on Monday afternoon. Cross your fingers that the answers aren't unbearable.
Oh yeah, for an IUI I think that sounds perfect.
You mean I'm not alone? I do this with OPKs because I get a fade-in pattern and I hate having to mindfuck whether the line is darker than yesterday, or dark enough. Mr. RBG found the neat line of labeled OPKs in the bathroom last week and just shook his head.
I am at 6 DPO and planning to hold out to test until next Sunday, 16 DPO, if I get that far. We'll see how that goes. I have no tests in the house, so I might be able to do it.
Fingers crossed for all the Julies!
I just got a phone call from a RL friend who's been going through infertility issues - we both have been trying since the beginning of the year. She's pregnant, and I'm thrilled for her! But a little sad for me, because I'm the last person in our little group of people trying to get knocked who hasn't. I'm an underachiever!
Edit: RBG, you and I are on the same cycle, although I'm testing 15DPO.
Laura, I keep waiting for that phone call from a RL friend of mine. I've posted about her a couple times here. She's been trying since January, too, so I keep hoping that one of these days she'll call to tell me she's pregnant.
Yeah - I didn't mention that Julie C and I are RL friends and co-workers b/c I wanted all of you to love me for me and not get voted to stay on the island simply because of my credentials. Damn. I guess that dream's shattered.
I perfer my OCD labeling machine to Sharpies, although the new Sharpie Minis are rather cute.
You ladies are hilarious. Thanks for letting a newbie in.
Julie C - congrats on the new cycle. Since I'm not in the office today, I didn't realize. Ah yes, Inhibin B. Time to fuck with the poor lab again.
It makes me happy to mess with my doctor's nurse. Last time she called the lab while I was sitting there and told them "I have a pain in the ass patient who's asking for a test I've never heard of."
I guess I should add that we know each other pretty well, or that sounds fairly awful.
I use a green Sharpie fine-point to label my OPKs. Mr. P. refuses to use it for anything else because he's semi-OCD about pee.
I highly recommend babies conceived in November, even if they ignore their August duedates. Sorry for being a dork, I've been thinking about this time last year recently.
Best of luck to everyone.
Mr. P is going to have a fun time changing diapers!
He's actually looking forward to diaper changing; it's MY pee whe has issues with.
Delurking again to vent about my stupid roommate, the one who insisted on knowing about the pregnancy because she felt left out. I should never have let her guilt me into confessing anything, I should have just lied and denied. Guess I'll never make a good politician. Anyway I just got junkmail for some happy baby new mom thing. Why did she bring this into the house? Why not just dump it into the almost empty recycle bin outside? Why did she think I wanted to see that? I know I'm being irrational, but it just seems to me in my present frame of mind to be a particularly thoughtless thing to do.
Your roommate sounds clueless, smarty.
VP, we're aiming for December. I'm planning to go see Dr. Handsome for an u/s on day 10 that cycle, anyway, and see what's up.
That's all provided that I can get over whatever miserable crappy thing I'm still sick with. I'm getting kind of pissy about this whole deal. I almost never get sick at all, and this has been dragging on for weeks. Grrrr.
I should have invented some sort of obscure disorder. I told my coworker about my hematoma (but not the pregnancy) when I wasn't supposed to be doing any lifting, and that work. Lesson learned.
Second visit is today. More bloodwork and another exam. Fun. I guess we'll see if I'm actually ovulating or whether my body is just putting on a show every month.
I got the highest temp I've ever gotten this morning (7 DPO). It jumped almost half a degree!
Tri-phasic?
BabSis, I hope your visit goes well. I'll cross my fingers for ovulation, as opposed to show.
I don't think it could be considered triphasic unless it stays up that high, but if it does, then yeah.
Do not allow me to get my hopes up.
Sharpies are also good for labelling specimen bottles for sperm collection ... or so I've heard ... it prevents the writing from coming off on your breasts when you stash the container in your bra to keep the little guys warm on the way to the clinic ...
I like the clicky sharpies. For, umm, everything.
Well, it's not timing, it's me. Day 16, and only a 15mm follicle, 158 estrogen, .63 prog., and 9.3 LH.
Crap. My follicle only went up 2 mm since Wednesday. So the cheerful doc said, "Oh, looks like ovulation issues! We'll get right to work on that!" Took more blood to make sure levels bear it out.
So, I have to call him back after I get my period and then we'll go from there. Looks like Clomid is in my near future.
I'm sorry, BabSis. Clomid actually works if you actually need it, though (rather than having it thrown at you by a doctor who doesn't want to look more closely, as often seems to happen). It's good to have an snswer. Crappy to feel broken, but good to have an answer.
Julie, he doesn't think it's PCOS. Eh, who knows. He doesn't seem to think this is going to be too hard to deal with. We'll see.
What do you mean, "that close"? Is that almost where it should be? He seemed to think the follicle should be increasing by 2 mm/day.
I'm delurking to ask a question about resting time after implantation during IVF. some of you know that my babysitter is going through this right now...she's seen everything on the 'Net suggesting anything from one day's rest to a full-week's bedrest. The docs at NYU say one day off from work the day after implantation. She'd rather be at work (and we'd rather have her at work, to be frank about it) than lying in bed for a week, but obviously no one is going to take any chances. She's not willing to *completely* take NYUs word for it -- she wants to know what *real* people do. Comments?
Babs, it should be increasing by 2 mm a day, and you should ovulate sometime after it hits 18 mm or so. However, if you're getting a follicle that big, it seems to me that your body is almost doing it, and just not quite getting there.
Real people go right home and don't take any special measures after that, at my clinic. I was told to take it easy, but mostly not to stress myself out (ha.) The best reason, IMO, to do exactly as the doctor tells you is so you don't blame yourself later if it doesn't work out. Give her the day off.
It's better to call it "transfer," btw, since implantation is what you hope happens after transfer.
I was told to rest for a day after my transfer, Jan. But the nurse said, as I was getting up from the gurney, "they won't fall out, you know." I walked out of the hospital -- they didn't have me take any particular precautions -- and spent the rest of the day on my mom's couch.
oh, sorry on the terminology there. and i didn't mean to suggest that there was a question about giving her anything. she's been with us for eight years and probably closer to the kids than any adults other than their own two parents. we'd gladly give her the week at full pay if there was some kind of consensus that's what reasonable people do, vs. what the docs say.
My lovely doctor speaks highly of NYU, btw.
(edit) Not to worry. Transfer is just more accurate. And it didn't sound like you were being any kind of meanie with the time off. I'd just follow the doctor's instructions and not worry about Dr. Google in this instance.
BabSis, I'm sorry you feel sort of upset about the RE's findings, but I'm glad he thinks it won't be hard to fix.
Damn, I have awful heartburn. I never get heartburn...except when I'm pregnant. Got it before I tested with Joseph and with the chemical, too.
I am refusing to be hopeful, though. Oh, hell, who am I kidding?
Jan - my RE didn't give me any specific instructions re: bedrest after my last transfer (the only one of 3 that "took" - the previous two that didn't work, I lay in bed for 3 days), but I took it easy the day of (it was a Saturday) and then pretty much got back to normal. They were pretty strict about no heavy lifting for the two weeks after, though, so I don't know how big your kids are, or whether she carries them around, but you might bear that in mind.
Edit - RBG - sounds promising!!!
I will be cautiously hopeful on your behalf, RBG.
I was just wondering to myself why I lurk here. I mean, I'm 41, divorced, not dating and have two wonderful kids already. There is about a 99.9% certainty that I will not be having any more babies.
But there is something lovely and hopeful about the whole thing, regardless of how it comes about, and I want such good things for all of my internet friends, so I read and hope for you all.
Damn, now I've made myself all emotional.
No, but we thought about trying it in the back seat of the car. I hear that's pretty reliable! heh.
I was lurking here even before my babysitter went into the assisted world. and it's funny because i never ready the pg or newborn thread, ever.
I just love it when people graduate from here and so much enjoy the support you guys give each other. i'll shut up now.
Heh. There is actually research supporting that, kas, although I don't know if it was ever replicated.
My lord I do feel pregnant. Maybe they won't live and maybe I'll get a negative but I swear to you I am pregnant today. New symptoms today: the usually inoffensive smell of Neutrogena shampoo about knocked me over in the shower (bottle is now banished), and a very small portion of delicious pad Thai made me briefly consider hurling. I don't want to believe-- I have to be ready to hear the bad news-- but it is so, so seductive to feel this pregnanty.
If the peri I saw last year hadn't told me that Valium use might be correlated with facial deformities I would be so into my stash right now.
(Deborah, feel free to call me mildly neurotic any time you like. You can leave off the "mildly" soon, I think.)
edit: Eyeroll! Fuck no.
Andrea, how many days past transfer are you? 6?
Hmmm. I've had horrible heartburn for the last 3 days...
Thank you. I can't stand it.
Transfer was last Saturday, mid-day. It's early yet, but they were five-day blasties which I assume means they would implant that much sooner after transfer.
This could drive a person crazy (earworm but entertaining one). I'm transferring my optimism, which is bad for me, over to RBG.
OK, so it's not the same thing as if you were 6 DPO - because the blasties are further along than that. So where you are now would be about equal to...what, 11 DPO?
I'm sorry, I don't know much about this process, and would be fascinated to know more.
Babs, even though you're not thrilled about the results, it does sound promising for fixing purposes! I'm hopeful for you getting it all resolved quickly.
I suppose it's too late to talk Andrea into smoking some crack tonight, just as a precautionary measure?
RBG, it's impossible to be not-hopeful, isn't it?
another question for my babysitter. she feels side effects starting to kick in: loose stools, nausea, little dizziness. she's taking follistim and something else -- starts with an M, a crystalized powder that you mix at home yourself with saline i'm blanking now and can't find it on the internet. any remedies she can try? she's a coffee drinker -- maybe 2 large cups/day -- does caffeine have any effect. (other question, of course, is whether it's really too early for her to have side effects -- she's had 2 follistim shots and one of the other ones since yesterday). she's afraid this is all in her head, but i've seen her and i don't necessarily think so.
sorry i'm clogging the thread with these questions -- she really doesn't have anyone to talk to about this -- she thinks i'm the font of internet knowledge because i can google.
The meds cause pregnancy symptoms, Jan. Of course, so does pregnancy. Myself, I wouldn't take anything for it, but someone else less neurotic than I might have better advice there.
Your babysitter is still stimming, right, Jan? Or am I confused? The stims can cause all kinds of side effects. She should have gotten a handout or something from her RE with a list of things to watch for, like sudden weight gain.
yeah, she just started yesterday. and it is menopur. she did get a handout of the danger signs. she's mostly just uncomfortable -- and freaking out a little. it's a big step.
Hi gang. I've been on one of my self-imposed TPW exiles for a while, but I think I'm back now.
I needed to come tell y'all that I've got a new RE that I like much better than the last. She laid out degrees of interventions, costs, success rates, and reasons for intervening all very clearly, and said "you go away and talk to your husband about it and let me know what you decide". Very different from, "If this fails we'll do this next". She also is being much more thorough about diagnostics, so she's re-doing Husband's jack-off test and I got to meet my friend the dildocam for the first time. Not pleasant, of course, but I finally got to see my ovaries and the classic PCOS ring-of-pearls.
The other thing I'd been wanting to report was that if your doctor is suggesting Clomid, you might ask about Letrozole (a.k.a Femara). It works the same way as Clomid but I had very few side effects. On Clomid I had blurred vision, mood swings, hot flashes, and all-around craziness. Letrozole really just made me randy, and and who would mind that? Of course, we didn't conceive, but that's not the drug's fault -- it did make me ovulate.
Okay, enough babbling, but a big !!! to Andrea, RBG and Laura.
Cardinal, it's good to see you. I'm happy to hear about your RE.
Andrea!
And Laura! I have big hopes for your non-symptomy symptoms, too.
Welcome back, Cardinal, and sounds like a good new path you're on!
Question: Could Clomid be messing with my temps? I just finished the 5-day course and have been having temps in the 98.1-2 range, when they're usually 97.7-7-9 pre-ovulation.
Andrea, I restrained myself from posting over the super-sniffer yesterday but today I cannot. For me, it is th tried and true sign. It obviously has a evolutionary function to keep you from eating or being around anything "dangerous."
Here is hoping you continue to be repulsed by smelly stuff for a long time!
Cardinal, welcome back. Sounds like you've got a great new RE and I hope things work out for you.
VP, I've had higher temps than usual too and I suspect it's at least partly because of the switch from daylight saving time.
Yeah, the switch will mess things up. My software had me adjust my temp times like this.
I normally temp at 5:15.
Saturday - temp at 5:35
Sunday (time change), 4:55
Monday: normal time.
I didn't notice any change in temps. I should have posted something - sorry!
Kim, I believe that's true about the super-sniffer but I can't let myself believe that I will be pregnant when we test. I keep reminding myself that they could die at any time. Fun!
I had a perfectly realistic "your test was negative" dream this morning and woke up crying. Danm. Not for sisssies, this business.
Cardinal, I was thinking about you recently and glad you checked in. New doc sounds good.
Andrea, what an awful dream. And you are anything BUT a sissy - you know that, right?
So, just for shits and giggles, I have kept up the OPT longer than I ever have, just to see if I am, in fact, ovulating late. I got a positive today (day 16/17, I think really it's 17). So, I will call the doc and tell him on Monday, but maybe I am a victim of the dreaded short luteal phase. Who knows? I am feeling ridiculously chuffed. All this time the OPT has never shown a positive, but I've been doing it too early, never at day 16 or 17 - I thought I was ovulating much earlier. So much for knowing my own body.
Hmmmm...so that could be not a terribly short luteal phase then, right? Maybe right on the cusp of not being long enough? I wonder if they'd still start you on Clomid next month, now that you've gotten a positive OPK. Someone said, I think, that Clomid has the added benefit of lengthening luteal phase.
Yes, Clomid is used in ovulating women with short luteal phases to lengthen the LP. So, BabSis, that's good that you're ovulating!
Here's an article about LPD and different treatments, including Clomid.
Yeah, I'm coming down on the side of neutral myself. I was crampy that entire time last year while I managed not to notice that I was pregnant. These don't even feel exactly like normal pre-menstrual cramps, just like some non-specific uterine weirdness.
I will vote for neutral as well.
By the way, it never occurred to me that higher-than-usual temps could be because of daylight savings time. Hmmm. My waking times are so random anyhow.
BabSis, it really does sound like things just might be coming together for you.
I talked to my sister today and she's five months into Clomid, upping the dose to 150 mg. this cycle, and has the impression that the doc might stop her after the sixth try. I can't believe this has gone on so long with so few answers.
I vote for neutral as well. If you seriously don't want to go into your beta thinking that you might be knocked up, you need to identify every symptom as brought on by the meds.
My temp went down a bit this morning, but I still got the "possibly triphasic" message. I know that doesn't mean much, though, and I am considering the small drop as the beginning of the end.
If this isn't it, the good news will be that my LP is getting longer.
Even if it doesn't work, Annie, I can't recommend UCSF highly enough. They are kind and extremely competent and a lot of them are involved in cutting-edge research. You can't chose your doctor, though. There are about six and you get who you get. They're all good. Only mine (Dr. Rinaudo) is also a babe with a smoky Italian accent, though.
Twiddle, twiddle. Tom Petty was right, "The waiting is the hardest part."
I, of course, am over-analysing every little twinge, etc. Can't it be Saturday yet and I can be done with it?
I called the RE today and they said they were not surprised about my positive ovulation test, as my Friday bloodwork looked like ovulation was imminent. So, that's good news!
Now I wait.
WOO HOO for the good news!
Good news, BabSis!
Laura, I'm right there with you. You're 10 DPO today, right?
Thank you, Pegasus. I am trying to hard NOT to get my hopes up but it's a challenge. We were at a banquet Saturday night with my in-laws, and of course shared a table with a lady who had her adorable 5 month old baby with her. My MIL was cooing over that baby all night long and kept pointing out to me how adorable she was. It was a very, very long night.
RBG - yes, 10 DPO. How was your temp today?
I had a small dip yesterday but it was back up again today.
Are you feeling symptoms still? My breasts are still tender, but the heartburn seems mostly gone. Just now I had the tiny, tiny, tiniest bit of brown spotting, so maybe my period is coming. Don't know. I think my LP pre-Joseph was around 10-11 days, but I didn't chart then, just noted when my period started and when I saw EW every month.
I'm hoping this is it for you!
My breasts are still tender as well. I had a bit of heartburn this weekend, but not as much as last week. My skins gone to hell as well, for what it's worth.
I think it's great news that your temp is up still - I am hoping so hard for you!
EDIT: Oh great, I just googled "Crinone side-effects" and see that breast pain and tenderness is listed. Grrr.
Yep. I don't get sore breasts with PMS, though.
It really is a rotten thing. And I told you guys that "worry" is a legit progesterone side effect, right? So now I don't even know if my worry is my own, and neither does Laura or anyone else on Crinone. I could just kick something.
It's two weeks today since retrieval, which makes it likely, I guess, that an HPT would be accurate, but I can't bring myself to to take one. I have to work, and don't want to spend the entire day sobbing instead, and K leaves tomorrow for two days out of town, and I just don't see a good time to do it. I think I'm stuck waiting till Thursday, POAS in the morning, and then whatever it says go in for the beta.
Is it Clear Blue Easy or First Response that always gets the best ratings?
I'm not even buying a HPT until Friday night.
I need to go light a candle or twenty.
I'm supposed to go get bloodwork done today: FSH, LH, TSH (requested by the ENT), E2, inhibin B, DHEAS, and prolactin. Whew. However, I think steroids suppress several of these, and I'm still on Medrol. I think I'll still run over there and see what the doctor thinks.
I'm suspecting that the ENT is going to suggest that I have a tonsillectomy quite soon. Argh. I told SU that my conditions were that (a) any surgery not interfere with the holidays and (b) I get the good drugs because there's no point trying to be all tough and I might as well be high instead and (c) that it not delay TTC more than maybe one cycle.
I just got an email from a friend that I haven't spoken to in a few months. She wrote a chatty bit, then said "I am guessing that you and (husband) have not decided to start a family just yet. That's ok, just don't wait too long."
Last time I saw her I was pregnant but waiting to find out how it was going. I'm not going to respond to it at all, because (1) hurting a little and (2) that was just rude. My business.
India, that's annoying.
A friend of ours, with a new baby, said "Baby dust!" and wiggled her fingers at me, when Mister (big fucking mouth) told her we were TTC. Ewwww. I know she meant well, but baby dust is too twee for me.
Although it could be handled better, sometimes people like India's friend may bring those things up that way because they are going though/have gone through similar ttc situations.
Lots of times when I am talking to someone and I am not sure of their ttc status and the topic of my toddler comes up I will mention something like "after a lot of difficulty/intervention . . ." Frequently I find that opens the door and the person wants to talk about their own difficulties. Maybe it's the crowd I'm in but it *seems* that most of the 35 year old and up childless couples I know are having ttc difficulties, whether or not they are out of the closet.
Eh, she was being nice, but the whole "baby dust/babydance" thing is so cloying.
Nay is Smoove (ba)B.
Then, after the age of one, there will be corn.
"Baby dust" is nearly as bad as "baby dancing." Except that rather than being obnoxious on the TMI/too twee for its own good front, it's obnoxious because it implies pressure to procreate.
I remember sitting in the chair at the beauty shop, getting highlights back in the summer, and having to smile through gritted teeth as all the busybody stylists kept admonishing me to go ahead and get started having a family. I wanted to grab them around the necks and hiss, "I'm trying, you old biddies, I'm trying!"
People need to just realize that they should butt out of the matter of when or if other people plan to have a baby. I mean, sure, there are people who wouldn't mind being asked, but there seem to be just as many for whom it's a topic fraught with tension. Just better to not bring it up.
Honestly, Judi, I don't know. She was very anti-children until she had one. She knows I love kids and adore her son, so I could see if she ASKED me what our situation was.
Man, i have to stop thinking about it. I don't want to be mad at her. She's just kind of clueless.
Babydust sounds like what you get when you dehydrate and pound babies. Bleah.
I have my fingers crossed for various people who I will not name because everyone knows that nobody ever gets pregnant.
Babydust sounds like what you get when you dehydrate and pound babies.
Cathy has just killed me dead.
Gah. If I were charitable, I could imagine that india's friend was trying to avoid being nosy and asking outright, but in doing so she committed the graver sin of making assumptions about people's private lives.
I'm finding these days that I'm perfectly willing to tell people I'm infertile when the conversation starts going in that direction, but I am still plenty miffed when they start giving advice.
Yesterday Husband and I became godparents to the most perfect baby ever. I got lots of snuggling time in, and am completely smitten.
My gut reaction is that she's the kind of person who just assumes that of course india would tell her if she was TTC. Since india didn't tell her, the only possible explanation is that they're not TTC.
That occurred to me, too, Stephanie. Except that why would india tell her if she was TTC? That's pretty private info. I say this, of course, after having posted copiously here about my own efforts--although in real life, only a couple of very, very close friends knew that we were TTC.
Oh, I've been free with the info to kind of deflect people's assumptions. I'm 37. I'm not working. We're living in the US for a short time. Now's the best time for us to have a baby, which is pretty obvious to anyone that knows us in RL, so we're bound to get comments. Besides, 4 of my friends and 3 of my cousins had babies this year. I can't escape it, so I tell folks discreetly that we haven't had any luck yet. Then they shut up.
Well, I had chemical pregnancy #3 this month, so let's hope I drew the wrath of the universe in my direction so the rest of you can catch some good luck!
Oddly, this one didn't upset me as much as did chemical pregnancy #2. I am starting to suspect my auto-immune stuff (psoriasis, arthritis) is somehow involved.
Ah hell, I'm sorry, A7.
When people ask if I want kids (and they do, especially since K and I are still sort of newlyweds) I say "Working on it!" kind of cheerfully and shrug off any further inquiries if there are any. That way, at least, I'm spared any "Oh, you're so lucky not to have kids! You can sleep in on weekends!" stuff.
Yes, baby aspirin, b6 & fish oil (as an anti-inflammatory [and yes, the kind without heavy metals!]).
Three does mean I/we can get a bunch of tests done -- maybe that will show something fixable. I'm still fairly pleased that we seem to be conceiving easily, since that wasn't at all the case with Maddy. Now we just have to figure out why they're not sticking around for longer than about 16 days.
That really sounds like an auto-immune issue to me. I'm glad you're eligible for testing now, although it sucks that you had to do this 3 times to get to that point.
Have you ever been tested for clotting disorders? Those really early losses make me think clotting or lack of progesterone.
Clotting -- good idea and no, I don't think I've been tested for that. I'll ask.
Progesterone was OK last they tested (I'll have it done again), and the temps were clearly triphasic -- good & high for about ten days, right around 37.0 -- so I suspect it's not the issue.
I haven't hit Medline yet on the autoimmune idea... I think I'll make my doctor's appointment first, so I won't mindfuck my way into procrastinating going in for tests because of bad stuff I've read on the Internet, you know?
edit -- the arthritis in my wrists disappeared during the brief time I was pregnant, which is rather nice. But it does rather imply that my immune system was off fighting something else, maybe the pregnancy.
Well, poop, A7. At least you'll get some tests done - I think that making progess on the 'unknown' is good.
Isn't it funny? I managed to have Kuru once!
There are a buttload of clotting disorders, and it seems like there are more that show up pretty regularly. I hadn't even heard of MTHFR a year ago, for example, and now people with recurrent losses are getting tested for it. (My not having heard of it isn't exactly meaningful, though, since I wasn't paying attention.)
Off the top of my head, you'd probably want to ask about MTHFR, Factor V Leiden, PAI, antiphospholipid antibodies, antithyroid antibodies (not related to clotting, but important), plus PT, PTT, protein C, protein S, etc.
Oh, man, that site is cracking me up. I wonder if Lorelei reads this thread? That site would be just great for a first year med student.
Julie, can you give me more information about the impact of clotting disorders? I have two of the ones you listed and I can't believe I had COMPLETELY forgotten that it might be the root of some of our problems. Should I be taking baby aspirin?
(Julie, I do lurk on this thread. Rarely contribute, because you all know so much more than I do - I'm still at the point where TPW makes me look smart in school, rather than vice versa. I'm going to check out that site in the morning, when I'm actually awake.) While I'm posting, I should say that I'm thinking of all of you and wishing you the very best.
Sweet pea, the short version is that clotting disorders can cause miscarriage. The most common reason that I know of is that they cause clots in all those tiny blood vessels that feed the placenta (and all the pre-placenta structures). The good part is that they're mostly pretty treatable.
You'll want to ask an RE or somebody who knows about them, but yeah, I think you should be taking 81 mg of aspirin. You may need heparin during your pregnancy, too.
I'm sorry, A7. I hope you get some answers soon.
I had a big drop this morning - no bleeding yet, but I'm sure it's coming. However, the good news is that today is 11 DPO, and I don't think my period will start today, so even if it starts tomorrow, that means my LP went from 7 days after my first PP period to 11 days - on the low end of normal, but at least in the normal range.
That's good news, RBG. I'm still hoping that the drop doesn't mean imminent bleeding, though. Did your temps drop below the coverline?
No. But I had what sure felt like a raging case of PMS last night, and there's a bit of brown spotting that I only see when I (whitefont) check my cervix.
Oh, did I mention that I had a voicemail last night from my old OB? (I decided not to go back to him - I have a consultation with a high-risk OB next week.) Anyway, he said he was calling because he'd seen the results of a beta in my file, and to congratulate me and see how I was handling being pregnant again. Um, I guess he didn't see the followup, dropping betas? He must be about six weeks behind on his paperwork.
Oh, man. That's inexcusable!
I'm feeling rather gloom and doom today - all optimism for me has gone out the window. I feel like Debbie Downer's gloomier, crankier older sister.
Yes, he's a nice man, but his bedside manner leaves much to be desired - which is one of the reasons I'm switching anyway. It did suck, though.
No, not really, just woke up today and felt like this wasn't going to be the cycle for us. Shrug.
Yeah, I'm starting to get that PMS-y feeling, so I won't be surprised to get my period soon.
I was POSITIVE my temp was going to drop the rest of the way below the coverline today and that the bleeding was going to start. Instead, the temp skyrocketed up to 98.4 (from 97.5 yesterday). I thought it had to be wrong, so I tested. It was positive - faint, but positive. Faint is OK at 12 DPO, right?
Ack.
HOT DIGGITY DOG!
And faintness isn't a problem - a line is a line. That is such good news!
RBG! That's fabulous.
And, hey, me too. Faint but very discernible line. I was very suspicious yesterday after I got some spotting two days before my period--I never spot. So I just tested. Faint but nowhere near invisible.
I actually tested in part because I've been wondering whether I've been more getting chemical pregnancies, so maybe this will fizzle too and I'll just have a little more information. Still. Line! Shold I go wake my husband up now that I've told the Internet?
Marya!!! Woohoo!
OK, I took a different test (bought one on my way to work...I am disturbed) and it's not nearly as faint, definitely positive.
I actually have a consultation with a new high-risk OB on Tuesday. I made it weeks ago, figuring it would be better to meet her and see if I want to become a patient before I was pregnant. So this is good timing - if it sticks til then at least, I'll let her know on Tuesday and see if she thinks it's necessary to do any bloodwork or anything.
yeah, I know what you mean.
Hurray for both of you! I will be crossing my fingers tightly.
Yay! Congrats Marya and RBG!
I had a vat of Diet Coke, some sushi (mostly cooked, but a few raw pieces) and a small glass of red wine over the course of yesterday. If I smoke some crack tonight, I should be all set.
Marya and RBG, Congrats!!! Best of luck to both.
Woohoo! Congratulations to you both!
Great news! Congratulations.
Marya! That is fantastic news! Congratulations!
YAY!!!
OK, both of you have to rub my belly for luck now. Or something.
I'm actually focusing cheerfully on the three alcohol-free flights I'm going have to suffer through in the next two months, plus the holiday dinners with no wine and no fancy cheese.
I think that's the beta, but she's going to test tomorrow. Not that I'm obsessively tracking her progress and hoping madly, or anything.
I have all appendages crossed for Andrea.
(Which makes our own efforts on the front of overpopulation that much more exciting...)
Andrea, Andrea/Andrea Andrea Andrea. . . </Maisy>
In stupid news, I just ate a whole bunch of cheese that I THOUGHT tasted really good because of enhanced tastebuds--but it actually tasted really good because it was, um, raw milk Appenzeller. Shit.
We only even own this stuff ($16 a pound) because the kid picked it up at Whole Foods and bit into the chunk. I forgot we had it. I don't generally eat raw milk cheese the second half of the month.
Marya, I'm sure one time this early is OK.
I have a question, though I may be getting ahead of myself. I didn't ovulate this cycle until Day 23, so an LMP-based due date would be more than a week off. Do most doctors take it into account if you tell them you were charting and know when you ovulated? I've heard that a lot of doctors don't "believe" in charting (I know Dr. No Bedside Manner didn't.)
If your doctor doesn't believe in it you can always ask for an early ultrasound for dating. With Chas, I had two days of EWCM, but they were not consecutive, so we used U/S to date the pregnancy.
Well, either it's teeming with listeria or it isn't. It is an aged hard cheese, which makes it less likely. Arggh.
My impression is the majority of doctors don't care and would prefer to go by the LMP method. At the beginning, when you're doing betas and all, I guess a difference of nine days would be very significant, but in the end not as much. I guess you could keep poking them about it.
Yeah, it's the beginning I'm concerned about more than the end - I don't want to be told I'm not progressing if I am, because they're thinking I'm farther along than I am.
But I don't even see a doctor until next week, so maybe my beta would be high enough to be reassuring at that point (if they even want to do one).
Oh! Omigod!
RBG, no words, just best, best wishes for this one.
I'm testing tomorrow or Friday. I think I may do the HPT and then go right up the hill and do the beta. J could come over before work/class in the morning and we could all be together.
Marya and I are spending a weekend together in three weeks. In New York. I'm so charmed by the idea of the two of us not drinking or eating cheese or charcouterie together... now please let that happen.
Marya, yes, but you didn't get listeria. It happens, like, never.
When I saw this thread ranked no. 1 in the Top Five, I hoped it was good news, and it is! Sticky sticky sticky, RBG and Marya.
Hey! No kicking yourself. Chances are very, very low that anything was wrong with that cheese.
Marya I just looked a little and you will get flu like symptoms if you did in fact eat listeria laden cheese. Also you can take antibiotics to protect you and your fetus. I would call your Dr and see how concerned they are. They can also do a blood test to see if you were exposed.
Thanks, guys. I am bad about mindfucking these kinds of risk assessments.
The Squid incident was very funny. It was a nice yellow wedge of cheese just like in a book so I guess she figured it was hers for the taking. $16 a pound!
Marya, last year before I found out I was pregnant, I was in England visiting relatives, and my French uncle brought a good half dozen different kinds of fancy cheese with him, and I pigged out on them all. I don't know for sure if they were raw milk or not (given how amazingly good they were, I assume yes), and decided it just wasn't worth worrying about because a) I couldn't do anything about it anyway, and b)the actual risk is very, very small.
RBG, if you are going to a peri you will almost certainly have an early ultrasound. If not, the easiest way to deal with the problem is to adjust the date of your LMP to what it would have been if your ovulation had occurred on day 14 of your cycle. Congratulations!
Marya, I hope the spotting is nothing. The cheese certainly is. When I was pregnant with Joseph, I though I was having my period so I had swordfish and wine. Then I was diagnosed with a miscarriage so I had a lot more wine. And yet, I just dropped him off at school all dressed up in his Picture Day outfit! Hang in there. Right now, you are pregnant.
Andrea, when you go ask them to do the test stat. Doesn't hurt to ask. Then maybe you will get the results before I leave. Because it is all about me. You hang in there, too. Can you do something fun today? Makeover, facial, manicure?
Andrea should get extra consideration on Friday, then, for being a veteran of the TTC Wars.
Marya, don't sweat the cheese. Listeria is so rare. You could always call your doctor, and when they get done laughing at you, they might give you a quant if you want one.
RbG, just lie about your LMP. I used my EDC for everything, and just subtracted 14 days to give them an LMP date if they wanted one.
Thanks, guys. I wasn't sure if I should lie to a peri (I think I'm having lapsed Catholic flashbacks). It's only an 8-day difference in the due date, though, so maybe I will.
Marya, hang in there. You're early too, right? Couldn't the spotting still be from implantation?
Andrea, you know I have all my crossable digits crossed for you.
Or just shrug and say "I'd rather use the date I ovulated and conceived."
Frankly, if my doctor said s/he didn't believe in charting, I'd find another doctor. That would piss me off severely. (I'm not referring to RbG's doctor here, just making a general comment.)
I wonder if a high-risk doctor would be more likely to go by charting. I have no idea if this one does or not, but she's highly recommended.
Actually, they can't not believe me because not only did I chart, I used an OPK, and, well, it was a very stressful month for both of us at work and that week was the only week it could have happened.
All three of my perinatologists were complete data geeks. I'm having a hard time envisioning one of them ignoring a temp chart should such a thing be available. On the other hand, I never had a peri visit that didn't also include an ultrasound, either. YPMV.
With Wolfie, they did go by when I said I ovulated, which was much later than standard 2 weeks after period, but the early ultrasound nailed it to the day. And, he still was 7 days beyond that. (God, with my LMP date, due date would have been like the 4th, the ovulation was 12 tha, and Actual Arrival Date 19th).
This time I have gone by LMP, because the chart is kind of odd. I may have a late temp rise, or ben very long lived sperm, and the latest date pushed me even earlier than that. I don't believe it for a second. I think the little guy is just big.
More sedate and preliminary excitement. And thinking about how things are supposed to come in threes.
It made me less crazy, Andrea. I got to find out quietly, at home, that way. (Of course, Mr. D and I left work to go wait in the park for the RE's office to call, so I knew I'd have to go back to work after learning the results. Home was preferable.)
I think if I got a negative on the HPT, though, I wouldn't believe it until I got the beta. So I'd be disappointed twice. (Or disappointed for nothing, if the beta turned out to be positive.)
I would totally do it ahead of time, because of what Marya said, and also because I hate waiting for results. HPT = little bitty wait. Beta = several hours wait.
Ah, but the doctor won't even be around and won't know till he happens to check my chart. Next week? I guess the lab will call the clinic and if I'm lucky the good nurse will call and if I'm not (and I am generally not lucky) the stupid, stiupid assistant will call.
Yeah, there is that. J and I developed a visceral horror of hearing the Stupid Assistant's voice on the phone. She always wants to answer your question instead of calling the nurse or giving you the nurse's voicemail, and she's always wrong.
If it's a choice between testing yourself and waiting waiting waiting for the doctor and/or Stupid Assistant, I'd test yourself, no question. Waiting is horrible.
I'm not even going to post the horrible thing I did before I knew I was pregnant, because I was SO POSITIVE that I would never ever get pregnant so why bother?
Five years later, the child is lovely, intelligent, and charming, and you can hardly even notice the second head.
I knew I was pregnant and didnt think about the fact that lox was a no-no and ate a huge sandwich of cream cheese and lox that had been sitting in a deli case for probably 8 hours (it was 9 at night, pre-made sandwiches for lunch were marked down). It was fine. Liseria is not that common.
Andrea, I would totally test rather than wait for stupid assistant.
It's not either/or; it's both. HPT and then beta. Stupid Woman will still call me.
I ate a little lox last time, on the theory that it isn't really raw. As for sliced deli turkey et al, did you all actually abstain? Sliced turkey and cream cheese were the only things I could abide during the day, so I ate the turkey but zapped it in the microwave first, thinking all the while that this is all just voodoo, except voodoo has better science behind it.
Mexican cheese. The outbreak I remember was, like, in the mid-1980s, though, so obviously not a burning threat.
What an excellent plan, TwoStep.
I avoided deli meats. But mostly because the thought of them made me feel a little urky, and the thought of microwaved deli meats made me feel a LOT urky. Guess what was the standard feed-the-newsroom meal for those nine months? That's right, deli sandwiches all around! I don't think we've had them at all in the past two years.
Andrea, I can't keep myself from voting. I would absolutely do an HPT tomorrow morning.
And I can't help but think that there's a whole lot of CYA medicine in this growing list of things to avoid during pregnancy. Why is it that the ability to do a reasonable risk analysis evaporates when there's a fetus involved? I ate whatever I was hungry for when I was pregnant. That was a long time ago so I was never warned off sushi and soft cheese and deli meat. If the risk to the fetus is less than that undertaken when you strap yourself into a car and drive into traffic it seems to me that you can at least consider judicious exposure if it's important to you. I know I intentionally drank at least one glass of wine during at least one of my pregnancies, so you're welcome to write me off as a fetus abuser.
I did forego changing the litter box during pregnancy.
You can get it from other stuff, like garden soil and rare meat. Although when I was paranoidly reading up on the rare meat, I found at least one cite that said lamb and pork weren't affected, just beef, and that freezing the meat first makes it OK. Maybe sunnyside can confirm.
My understanding about the worrisomeness of listeria is that pregnant women are just plain more susceptible.
Eh. I have not so far lost my ability to do a reasonable risk analysis, as far as I know, and i just can't seem to make myself worry about most of these foods, either. I will skip the sushi and deli meat from questionable places if I get the positive tomorrow but more so I don't second-guess myself all the time, rather than from actual belief they could hurt me. And Decca, you're fine.
Sunny, why absolutely on the HPT?
Marya, I'm a ridiculous nihilist about a lot of this stuff. I cared for someone with listeria meningitis when I was pregnant. I really think Two Step's approach is the one that makes sense - avoid it if it's not a problem to avoid it. Don't beat yourself up.
Andrea - because the HPT results are overwhelmingly likely to be accurate and because I would want that information in the privacy of my home with my beloved and with no outsiders privy. Even if I could depend on getting a prompt report from the very doctor himself I would test at home before.
Just because my husband has been traveling frequently and it would be annoying to have my brother or someone else clean out the box if I'm home. I only clean it when he's away as it is. I'm not worried about gardening or raw meat. (I don't know that "negative" was the right word for my test result, only that it was a good result.)
I do the litter box because K travels, and because Trout hasn't been outside in 18 years, if then.
Would it change anybody's opinion on the HPT thing if I mentioned that I work at home and K can probably work from home tomorrow too, so nobody has to be in public to get the call?
India, it really depends on how willing your husband is to clean the litter box. Mine is perfectly willing from the first little line, so I just never even think about it.
I had no idea I wasn't supposed to eat lox, we have loc every xmas and I'm having it this year as well.
Andrea, I would test, because the worse case scenario is that you test, it's negative and it's right, which you will know anyway from the lab test. The next worse case scenario is that you test, it's negative and it's wrong, so you have a little while of being disheartened and then you feel all great when it's wrong. Unless you use that opportunity to smoke crack, it's ok. The best case scenario is that you test, it's positive and the lab test is positive and you knew early.
I would not be able to tolerate the smallest chance of first learning from Stupid Assistant. Positive or negative, I wouldn't be able to handle it coming from her. Just me, personally, I wouldn't do well hearing from anyone else as long as the HPT is available and accurate.
I had no idea I had to worry about deli meats. For a while, I craved turkey pastrami and cheese sandwiches on pumpernickel and I had lots of them. I also found out about gardening after I had gardened almost all summer. I, too, tested positive recently, meaning I was exposed to it and am immune, so that made me feel better.
Andrea, I think sunnyside has a good point about not waiting for Stupid Assistant and being at home when you find out. Good luck if you decide to test tomorrow morning.
Wow, I can't believe I missed all the action here today!
Sedate, preliminary OHMYGOD!s to both RBG and Marya, and a "good luck" to Andrea in whatever decision she makes on whether to test or not.
And on the listeria front...I ate four hot ballpark hotdogs the weekend before I found out I was pregnant. The Red Sox were in town, and I was convinced that I was never going to get pregnant, and well, you have to eat hotdogs at a baseball game. No damage so far!
Thanks. I'm feeling kind of gloomy and pessimistic tonight, but I know that's the hormones talking. Emotional lability R us. (J told me she'd never heard the word labile until she was reading the patient information that came with the meds, heh.)
I have to ask you guys not to cheer and stuff for me in the morning, OK? In this state it just causes (more) anxiety. I'll check in as soon as I know anything.
Happy to see RBG and Marya's good news! And will be thinking of Andrea tomorrow of course. Marya, I'm amused that a tiny part your usual pragmatic, sensible self has temporarily left you. I hope you're not suffering too much, though.
Positive thoughts for everyone.
I've mentioned elsewhere on TPW that before I knew I was pregnant with K I drank a lot at Thanksgiving. A lot. As in, my SIL, me, and a cousin went through 3-4 bottles of Asti and wine and a bottle of Godiva white chocolate liquor. I also ate raw cake batter and wasn't taking my prenatal vitamins. The end result has only just now nodded off to sleep, an hour after his bedtime. And if he occasionally stumbles around like a drunk toddler, it's only because he's really tired and has an ear infection, not because there was any lingering effects of alcohol, honest.
All good wishes and the stickiest vibes ever to the three of you!
Marya, on the listeria front: I'm also on High Listeria Alert, but back in July I started implantation spotting on a Thursday, figured I was getting my period early, and had cold deli-meat sandwiches (and a truckload of coffee, too, come to think of it) three days in a row because the deli was the only place open near the workshop I was attending.
Ha. I have some very substantial hypochondriac mental subroutines.
The spotting stopped at a small amount of pinkish-brown, so I guess we call it spotting.
That sounds like a very enjoyable bender, chlucy!
(mouth duct-taped; sitting on hands)
Not cheering. Just hoping for the best for K, A, and J.
"While you're in the neighborhood. . ."
Delurking to say I'm thinking good sticky thoughts for Marya, RBG and Andrea.
Crossing fingers for you too, Snoozebar!
I saw an OB who said to stop charting because it raises the level of tension in the household.
I find this attitude very annoying as well. Anyone who encourages me to be less informed about my body would not be my doctor for very long.
Congratulations, Snoozebar.
The "stop charting" OB sounds perilously close to the "just relax and it will happen" line, which would really annoy me. Hasn't there been study after study at this point, disproving any connection between infertility and tension?
Snoozebar, wonderful news!
Has there? Because my OB asked me about causes of stress, too. Which isn't the same thing as saying "just relax," really.
Congratulations, Snoozebar!
Congratulations, Snoozebar!
OK, I would have not only fired him, but smacked him around before leaving his office in a huff.
Do they make bagels to go with it?
Julie, has there really been scientific exploration of the stress connection?
Obviously it's a piss-poor substitute for good medicine to recommend de-stressing before exploring the medical issues, but is it known that it isn't a factor at all? It seems very plausible to me that it would be.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LC. hahaha!
Quilt!
K is showering, J is dancing for joy. I peed in the cup and left it in the bathroom, afraid to dip the test. K went in unannounced and ran the test and came out and told me. Why I didn't realize he would do this is beyond me. Of course he did!
Wonderful, wonderful news, Andrea.
(And cautiously optimistic for Marya and Rubberband Girl and Snoozebar.)
The same. No spotting yet today. I may test again tomorrow if nothing happens, to see if I get a darker line.
I'm thinking I need to call my endocrinologist. I'm not sure how hair-trigger the thyroid levels issue is.
Excellent news, Andrea! And congrats to Snoozebar! Yesterday and today were great days. What happy news.
Oh, such lovely news!
!!!!!
I can't stop smiling!
Oh! Oh! Wow! CONGRATULATIONS! That is just fantastic.
And congratulations again to Marya and RBG, and now Snoozebar too.
I have the hugest smile on my face. Yay, yay, yay! Andrea, Snoozebar, Marya, woo and HOO!
ANDREA!!!! I saw 49 new messages and thought "please let it be for a good reason, please!" and it was!
So, so happy for you. So happy.
P.S. Good news, Marya! I got a darker line today too. A big fat one. I'm feeling pretty good. Glad you have no more spotting!
A big Woohoo! to Andrea! And RBG, and Marya, and Snoozebar!
Isn't 21st century medicine amazing? What wonderful news.
YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYA!!!!!!!
Another one crying at work, here.
I am over the moon for you and K, Andrea.
Yaaaaaaaay for Andrea, Marya, RBG and Snoozebar!
Marya: My endocrinologist wanted to see me every 2 months during my pregnancy to monitor my thyroid levels. My thyroid level is kept artificially high (way high), and no one seemed to think that posed any problem. I think there's a range.
Yay!!! Yay!!!! YAY!!!
Andrea, well....all I can say is I am so, so happy that this is finally working out for you (and K). And RBG, congrats on the positive tests!
I can't wait for all you newly pregnant gals to migrate over to OBP!
Andrea, I'm so happy for you.
And keep feeling happy. Stay in the moment and don't go to the dark side.
Congratulations to all the other 2-liners.
I'm sure next week is fine, Marya. I don't think you start needing lots more hormone till later on.
I had thyroid cancer, so they want to suppress TSH so that any remaining cancer cells that are hanging out don't get stimulated. One thing I will keep an eye on next time: I think the elevated thyroid level was a big factor in my milk supply issues. Next time, I'll have a better plan going in for dropping my dose significantly as soon as I give birth.
I stay out of this thread normally for weird superstition reasons but knowing a little about the timing and seeing it at #1 I decided to peek in and now I'm also sniffling and laughing at work, sans office. So so very happy for all the liney folks.
Congratulations, everyone, and wow, Andrea. That's so great.
Congratulations, everyone!
ANDREA!!!!!
Don't have much else to say, just ANDREA!!!!
Would you laugh at me if I told you that we had some last night? Someone gave it to us months and months ago and Mr. RBG brought it out at dinner. Part of me felt like it was jinxing it, but it was sweet.
I'm going out for pan-Asian and drinks tonight, so maybe it'll work out for me!
WOW!!!!!! Add my lurker congrats to all the two-liners here.
my babysitter goes into for her transfer on sunday -- maybe some of your luck will rub off on her (they are very excited about her follicles -- four at at least 15 today).
There's a huge amount of variation. I was expecting something under 500, though.
Oh, and good nurse called, thanks goodness. I think she had too-- there was a lot of information she had to give me, new prescriptions, etc etc. Dumb Donna would not have been able to handle it. At all.
I'm flashing forward on how to afford two daycares, two private schools, etc, and feeling a little dizzy. It's all jumping the gun. though. I have to go in for an early ultrasound before they'll let me leave the state, so we'll able to see who's in there then.
I can't help hoping it's one very enthusiastic little bean instead of two, but it was a risk we took when we said, go ahead, put the other one in. They were going to throw it away if we didn't transfer it!
Congratulations to all of you with good news! It's about time to have some good news in here! I'll keep thinking positive thoughts for you all!
Woo! That's a mighty impressive hcg, Andrea. This is so exciting!!
Gosh, I just came in here to offer chocolate, you know?
Chocolate Source: Spend $35, Get 10% off! Coupon 20015
Congrats, Andrea!
I'm so overcome, having read 350 posts at once. This was the best treat at the almost-end of a big week.
So many congratulations to hand out, RBG, Marya, Snoozebar and Andrea! May you all be increasingly pregnant for a good long while!
Laura, are you still testing this weekend?
Leaping in from the highlight to say, "ANDREA!"
Holy fucking fuck, that's excellent news! Congratulations to you and K!
WHEE!
Or you know, peeeee!
Hurray for darkening lines!
Late implantation doesn't mean ovulating late - maybe the spotting is just weird.
Not necessarily -- implantation is kind of an ongoing event, so it could just be evidence of further settling in.
That was one of those classic, unhelpful "it depends" answers, wasn't it?
You are getting pregnanter by the day! WHEE!!
Wooooo Hoooo Marya!
Where is Laura? Isn't she testing today or tomorrow?
Also, do people who take baby aspirin quit taking it after implantation? I had some little shreddy bits with the spotting, and I am wondering if they're clots and if that would suggest the couple of aspirins I took late on helped, and if I should keep taking them.
Marya, I think most people taking baby aspirin continue taking it at least through the first trimester. You know that it is more effective to take it at night, right? The effects last longer then because the gastrointestinal system is at rest.
Marya, hooray for the darkening line! FWIW, I would not keep taking the baby aspirin unless you are directed to do so by your doctor. My RE's both said that most of the research about it is inconclusive and usually miscarriages that are caused by clotting disorders happen in the second trimester.
Andrea, what a great number! How many days post transfer are you? IIRC, blasts often show much higher HCG levels so I think you're right on the money.
I'm here, just feeling very Debbie Downer amongst all the FANTASTIC news so I'm staying quiet.
Very, very, VERY happy for everyone who's pregnant, though!
Woo hoo, Marya!
The RE here who specializes in recurrent loss would disagree. She's saying that a lot of recent research indicates that (a) there are more clotting disorders than they knew about even a year ago and (b) they could cause recurrent early loss.
I'm sorry, heide. For what it's worth, we were great big slackers this month. Spousal effort and respect for timing not a factor.
Laura, I'm really hoping straightening out your luteal phase stuff is the key and you'll have some good results soon.
Oh, in reference to the baby aspirin thing I think I've taken, um, three. So it's probably not relevant either way.
Possible factors in success?
- Vitex
- Licorice root
- Green tea
- Boredom and apathy
- Minuscule quantities of baby aspirin
- Lessened sexual activity
Hmmm. No fucking idea.
Right, testing tomorrow. My temperatures have been decreasing, I have no physical symptoms and I just. don't. feel. pregnant.
I had a huge emotional meltdown last night - I was on a business trip yesterday, seeing a physician at a children's hospital, which means I got to see many happy new mom and dads and new babies. It took it's toll on me - I was on the verge of tears most of the day and when I got home I couldn't hold it back. This sucks. I'm dreading testing tomorrow because I don't want to see a negative - being unsure is almost better in some sick way.
Next cycle I'm not going to temp, I'm going to use the Fertility Monitor and hope that will be less stress inducing.
Blah, blay y blah.
I hate being such a fucking whiner.
This sucks. When I went for my pre-D&C appointment, I got to sit through a huge group of expectant parents getting a tour of the facilities while I was waiting for bloodwork. Sucks.
Julie, I was thinking that there may be more current research out there on the clotting stuff. My RE's were just really skeptical about any research that wasn't their own.
FWIW, I just don't like self diagnosing and treating.
Marya, if you've only taken three, then the odds are good that you really didn't need it.
You know, I hate sitting here in my cube with tears running down my face over invisible people's pregnancy news. But fuck it all.
Andrea, I'm so happy for you & K that I can't stand it.
And Marya--I'm thrilled that Squiddy's going to be a big sister.
I'm so happy!
Great big fat congratulations to all you happily pregnant people! And equally great big fat heartfelt wishes for success to everyone still trying, too.
Laura, that sounds horrible. I'm very sorry. And i wish things were going better for you and Andrew, Heide.
Marya!
I'm just impossibly moved by how happy people are for us. K and I both felt some of the tension start to let go last night and by this morning we were... happy? Happy! I'm even managing (right now, no guarantees about later) not to fret about the next beta and the ultrasound. It's an experiment in nonfretting.
Dumb question here. When I had the chemical pregnancy last month, the last beta I had was at 29 (dropping pretty quickly - had been 62 two days before). I was supposed to go back a week later to see if it was at 0 - but I was sort of disgusted with my practice at that point, and knew I wanted to change, so I never did. I charted and so I saw my temps drop to normal pre-ovulation levels and then I seemed to ovulate normally. I also took an HPT a week or so after the last beta and it was negative.
I know I'm really pregnant, I'm just feeling sort of guilty now that I never went back. When it was that early, how bad is it not to be followed all the way to 0? Is the new doctor going to be upset about that?
Christ, I'm a worrywart...
Marya, WHEE!
What an excellent hCG number, Andrea.
Boy do I remember this feeling. I'm sorry it's getting so rough, Laura.
Yep, that's pretty much it. I could just stop taking the Crinone and if I bleed, I bleed. But if I am pregnant, I will probably need to keep on it, so I have to test.
I'm going out for dinner with some friends tonight and would really love a margarita or 10 but we all know that would be stupid.
My poor husband just doesn't know what to say or do to make me feel better - and I don't think there is anything he can do at this point. Oh well. I'll survive, I always do, and then we can start all over again in 2 weeks or so.
You'll survive, and you'll go on, and you'll keep trying. At the darkest moments around here K always says, "Whatever happens, we'll be all right." and he's right. We will. But it's only so helpful.
I'm really sorry.
Oh, and Marya's right. A margarita won't hurt anything.
Heh. Fine advice from the woman who ate risky cheese! (grin)..
Anyway, enough whining from me. Carry on with the happy news and if I'm not posting for a while, you'll know why, and that's ok too.
Edit: Thanks, Andrea. I really am just so happy for you and K - you've motivated me quite a lot to keep going even though it's difficult.
Ha. AFTER I knew!
I think there's a difference between listeria, which even if the likelihood is small, you can get from one exposure, with very bad results, and FAS, where there's pretty much NO evidence you can cause it with a drink here and there even in the first tri. Not that I'm drinking, but I continue to resent the recommendations on that.
I was thinking about that too! yay for baby sister/brother.
Have a margarita. Then if you get pregnant and it's a girl, name her Margaret.
So happy for all the newly pregnant people!
Sick preemie twins don't seem to be as common as they used to be. But I bet you have a nice, healthy singleton in there, Andrea.
God, I thought the last two weeks were brutal, waiting on pins and needles for your hpt and beta. How am I gonna make it through the next 9 months?????
There have been 3 sets of twins born to my coworkers in the last year-- a set at 30 weeks, a set at 36 weeks and a set at 38 weeks. All doing well!
You poor thing!
I know! Heh.
My nieces were extreme preemies - 1 was less than 3 lbs and the other just a pound or so and they are doing just fine at age 9. I don't wish it on anyone, of course, but make sure your hospital has a great NICU.
Hee. I'll take it if my next test comes back OK.
I'm trying not to worry about the other stuff until
a) I know that it's not chemical and
b) I've seen not only a heartbeat but two heartbeats. That could be a while since my first U/S may be too early to see anything but a sac/sacs.
We could see both sacs, the little poles and two heartbeats (flickers, really) at that first ultrasound. It was at either five or six weeks -- I'm not remembering.
That was when the RE said, "So, how many bedrooms do you have?"
I have a question. I'm using the Easy Blue Fertility Monitor. I screwed up because I was out of town and sleep-deprived and didn't test the first day it told me to, on day 8. Instead I skipped it and started testing on day 9. Whereupon it told me my fertility was high. Which is what it has said every day through today, Day 15. The last two months, I've supposedly ovulated on Day 16.
So did I totally break everything by not testing on Day 9? Have I really been at "high" for a WEEK? Does my body hate me? Is this why I was moody all day?
I hope I do, Jenny, but my current worry is that it will be a couple days too early (I have to do it before I go east for Thanksgiving) and I will have to go w/o knowing if it/they is/are viable. That happened last year, over New Years, and I'd like to avoid a replay.
I'm sorry, Sweet Pea. I don't know much about the monittors. I hope someone can answer.
Good luck today, Andrea!
How is it possible that I have morning sickness already? I feel like hell this morning, and it feels exactly like last time, but I'm wondering if it's in my head.
I'm sorry, Tiki. That does sound frustrating.
RBG, who the hell knows what's in our heads and what's in our bodies? Not me.
Yes, I hate blood draws. I'm getting better but it wasn't hatred before; it was a full-blown phobia. Last week's phlebotomist didn't help. If she comes near me this time, I'll scream! I'm sure that will be fun for the other patients waiting out in the chairs.
Better this time. It was actually oddly painful but the tech was much kinder and more gentle and didn't make me feel stupid, like the last one.
I am feeling queasy but I think it's more fear that the number won't have doubled than it is standard urkiness.
When do you get the results?
Andrea, let me just mention that Della's birthday is July 5.
Glad you at least got a decent phlebotomist this time. I hate needles too. I once had a phlebotomist who was so incompetent that her endless fruitless stabbing made me literally cry in pain, and I have the biggest freaking veins in the universe.
Here's hoping you get good news and don't have to wait long for it!
Oh. Oh wow! WILD APPLAUSE!
Yay, and holy crap, Andrea! You are soooo knocked up.
(that's, um, slightly more than double, right?)
Like, dare I say, quadruple? NOT THAT THAT MEANS ANYTHING TWINNISH OR ANYTHING
I was searching back trying to figure out what the rate of doubling is "supposed" to be, but there are LOTS of posts, and I'm at work and busy... someone translate for me!
Edit - I thought your first quant was on thursday, because of the holiday?
because it doesn't. Really.
Jillian, it's supposed to double every two days. But I do think there have been instances here where people have drastically more than doubled with it being twins. I think.
Yes, you're right, it's much too early to guess. But it's kinda fun to speculate if you're not the uterus holding the GIANT AMOUNTS OF HCG.
It looks pretty conclusive that you're pregnant and getting pregnanter, though!
I'm having a really hard time not blurting this out to my coworker here. "OMG, my invisible friend, well, she's not really invisible and I did actually meet her and go to her fun Reno wedding, anyway, OMG, she's totally pregnant!"
SWEET! Excellent! WHEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Whoa, Andrea!! Great news!
Great.
And, yes was going to suggest EMLA, which I was introduced to yesterday, for Wolfie, who does not seem to have problems with regular shots, but this was for IV's for a 2 year old, so why not use it. The nurse said that her grown daughter still uses it if she needs to have bloodwork done and care not a whit if the technician suggests that she's being a baby.
Oh, great number, Andrea! Around the same time, my HCG was 5500, so there might indeed be more than one in there. Are they telling you your progesterone number? My RE thought that was more of an indicator of multiples than the HCG number, FWIW.
Wow, that's so awesome, Andrea!
I didn't have more than one beta, so I don't have a reference point about doubling, but my number just a couple of days after I had a positive hpt was 8000. And AFAIK there was only ever one in there (at 8 week u/s).
I just got back from a consultation with a new, high-risk OB, and I really liked her. She read over my records and said the only thing that worried her was that there might have been something wrong with my placenta that wasn't found, because they discarded it before Joseph died so they weren't able to run any tests on it. But since he was of normal birthweight, she thinks it's unlikely and is more inclined to go with the "freak accident" diagnosis.
I'll have an ultrasound on December 2 for dating and then a first appointment later that month. She says I will be monitored as though I'm high risk, but that she doesn't really think I am.
I'm glad I chose to meet with her and am feeling better about going to a different hospital this time.
The OB sounds very thorough. I am glad you have found someone you like who knows what she is doing.
Going to be nerve-wracking emotionally, but I am hoping very hard that it isn't complicated physically.
Me too. And I am pretty sure that Julie C. meant hard emotionally.
Sounds like your new OB is a much better fit for you, RBG. I'm glad.
Ditto to what Marya said. [and DQ]
The last one was, physically, about as uncomplicated as it gets, right up until the end. And I'm very healthy, so hopefully this one will be the same.
It would be meaningless for me to say that you *will* be fine, because what do I know? But the odds are very good that you will be fine.
RbG, I'm glad to hear you've found an OB you like. Mine, who I loved, told me that I had a free ticket to call whenever over anything no matter how silly I thought it was. She'd gotten the same while pregnant after having a scare.
I guess I'm sharing this to recommend that you call if you're worried even if it seems like a small thing. Not that you're worried, but I was on edge and in denial for a lot of my pregnancy and it was nice to know that I could call.
Ok, I feel like a dork and half, but I'm still going to hit post.
You're not a dork! She did talk a lot about how I could call any time at all, and made sure I had the numbers not only for her and her nurse, but also for the triage nurses.
She also told me to stay away from the Internet, heh. (I don't think Julie C. and the rest of you count, though.)
I just called and made an appointment with my doctor. They wanted to get me in tomorrow afternoon!! I figured I would call now, they'd get me in sometime in January... I ended up scheduling for a couple of weeks from now - I can't figure out how to fit it in before Thanksgiving.
They are making me see my primary doc first. The last time I saw her, I told her we were trying to get pregnant and she gave me a photocopied sheet telling me to do things like eat vegetables. So I'm not really optimistic that she's going to be helpful, but I guess it is the first hoop I have to jump through.
Green and I had a long, horrible conversation last night. I'm really, really stressed about a lot of things and this isn't helping. The last couple of cycles seemed normal from the charting and the fertility monitor, so that this one isn't is totally freaking me out. Green pointed out that I've been travelling a ton and travelling always fucks with my cycle (which I didn't realize.) Right now I'm just in a terrible place in a million different ways. He suggested that we just stop trying - stop temping, stop using the monitor. But I have to KNOW, even though I'm afraid to know. I feel like my life is on hold and I can't be strategic about my future until I know whether we're going to ever have kids.
Here's hoping they get you some good answers, sweet pea. At least you can get some basic bloodwork done and so on.
You guys have been trying a while, right?
It is pretty fucking scary to go in and ask if you might be infertile. I had a kid already and it still felt terrifying and painful.
Question: I am on cycle day 9, and I thought my hormones were settled down and back to normal (they have certainly resulted in The Face That Launched A Thousand Zits), but then today I have spotting. Spotting? On Day 9? I never have spotting.
sweet pea, I understand that need to know what's happening. I hope you get some answers.
smartygirl, I think sometimes you can have spotting around the time of ovulation - I did a few months ago. Could that be it?
So glad to hear your great numbers, Andrea!
sweet pea, I'm sorry this is so stressful. I hope your doctor's appointment goes well. Will you be able to do less traveling now, or is that ongoing?
smartygirl, I have, in the last two cycles, had spotting at ovulation time, when I never had this in my life ever before at all. I put this in the category of "what the hell is my body doing now?"
sweetpea, sorry for the sucky stress, but glad to hear you have a doc appointment! Although the combination of ignorance and denial was weirdly comforting, I found it was actually a relief to have a diagnosis (even though I knew things were Wrong With my Body), because then it was possible to make a concrete plan for how to proceed.
Sweetpea, I'm sorry things are hard right now. I hope that you find answers. I've always found knowing better than not knowing.
The idea of not charting or trying is kind of grounded in this hope that it will just happen if you relax. Kind of like I might find a winning powerball ticket on the sidewalk. Or someone is going to come to my door to offer me a new fabulous job without even seeing my resume. Jason floated that idea and I pretty much ripped him a new one, so don't take my opinion very seriously.
RBG, you know I was probably insane in my pregnancies, and they were hard physically as well as emotionally, but having a kind, concerned, probably-overly-intervention-willing OB made all the difference to me. I don't think we'd have had Skye if he had not taken me through my pregnancy with Eilidh the way he did.
I wish you the same, and the peace of mind that comes eventually (or so I hear).
We've been trying a long time. It was shock to me to realize that we're getting ready to go home for Christmas and the last time I was there - two years ago - I was sure it would be the last Christmas we'd be there because we were already trying. That, combined with the questions I get a LOT from people who care about me and wonder if we're going to have kids, combined with the feeling that my body might be broken... pretty demoralizing.
Unfortunately, the travel appears to be going to continue almost unabated. It eases briefly in December and then gets worse than ever. (I just discovered that on one notable day, I need to be in both Oregon and southern California!) The good news is that it seems my body reacts worse to cross-country travel and I'll mostly be on the same coast in the new year.
Anna, I know what you mean. Poor Green suggested that part of the problem might be my stress level. Well, even if he's right, I'm too stressed to hear it!
It'll all work out. I really appreciate all the support and experience here.
Hear hear. My body makes me quite angry.
okay, i have a very vague question that someone here might be able to answer about my babysitter's IVF process. they retrieved 10 eggs on Sunday, five fertilized and now they are telling her that one "didn't make it." they all said something to her about "nuclear" and "fertilization" and all the rest she heard was "blah, blah, blah" because she was all freaking out over losing one of the eggs. she is going to call them back tomorrow, of course, but i'm wondering if whether with this one word clue, you guys know what they could of been talking about, and that i can put her mind at rest that the remaining for won't "not make it" until they are transfered (hopefully friday, but they said to be available by phone before 11 a.m. tomorrow as they may need her to come in to have it done then).
And Andrea, great numbers!!!
on edit: they were returning her call when they told her this news -- it wasn't like they called her especially. don't know if that makes any difference.
Oh, dear. Many eggs/embryos die off before transfer. They should have told her that. The conventional wisdom is that an egg that doesn't make it through to transfer would not have made it *after* transfer.
It sounds like they're doing blastocyst transfer, same as I did, which is transferring a day-five embryo instead of day two/three. (Oh! Right, I just remembered my doctor telling me that they always do blast transfer at NYU.) There is no guarantee that all will make it, or, worse, that there will be any left at all (they MUST have explained this to her! I sure hope they did) but blastocyst transfer has a higher chance of implantation. We had twelve fertilize and only two make it through to blast, and we had great eggs.
It sounds as though they either did a lousy job explaining the risks to her or that she was too distacted by anxiety to pay attention. The doctor or nurse owes her a good, careful explanation of the process and the likely outcomes, which sadly do include embryos dying. I hope she gets one.
We did three-day transfer. From seven eggs, seven fertilized and six made it, so we were able to transfer three and freeze three.
The ones that don't make it generally don't show normal cell division -- I'd guess the "nuclear" she heard was referring to that.
Jan, is she doing any reading? There are some great sites around -- Peanut has posted a good one, if you scroll back through the thread, and I've posted links to the Jones Institute here in Norfolk, which has very good and clear explanations of the process.
She had a 50% fertilization rate, which I think is about average. She's seeing the number reduction that always horrifies me with IVF stories, Jan. You start out with all these eggs, and half of them fertilize, then some number of them make it to transfer day.
Hey, we got some good news in our family this week, too. SU's niece (also a Julie) is pregnant, after 4 miscarriages. She finally got a diagnosis this summer--she has the MTHFR mutation--and is on massive doses of folic acid and B vitamins, and heparin. They saw a fetal pole and heartbeat yesterday at 6w2d. That's further than she's made it with any pregnancy since her son was born. She's in for a long, scary, and somewhat risky pregnancy, but so far, so good.
That is great news, Julie. I hope everything continues to go well!
What does that mean? I have MTHFR and Factor V Leiden. Fuck. I've never had a problem before. My doctor didn't seem all that worried - this is the same doctor I have to see in two weeks.
I'll be thinking good thoughts for her, Julie.
I didn't meant to freak you out. I'm sorry, Sweet Pea. I only meant it's turning up a lot in articles. There's a lot of interest in it.
When J was waking up after the retrieval, for instance, a nurse came in with a consent form for a study using nonviable donor eggs. They were studying MTHFR but the nurse did such a poor job of explaining it ("It's about your... folic acid gene?") that J just said screw it and signed.
Okay, I'm going back to my happy denial place. I wonder if it is pretty recently that they've really known about it. I know they've only known about Protein S at all for about 30 years. I had no idea it could be so serious. I wonder if there are different levels of it beyond homozygous and heterozygous.
Congratulations! Anti-Sex Machines!
Van - sorry, but you just made me laugh out loud at my desk.
DH and I once had "hurry up, it's day 12, we're leaving for the cottage in 45 minutes and I have to lie here for 30 minutes afterwards" sex. We (or rather, DH) managed, but barely, to do the deed. Afterwards, DH reflected: "Well, not my finest performance, but I got the job done!"
This is why one of the best silver linings in this whole IF nightmare is that, as far as I'm concerned, all our sex is now recreational.
Wow Van. Um congratulations?
Just got an email from my sister who has started TTC this month. She inherited my TCYOF (and said "I'm the one she was talking about when she said 'Some women go most of their lives without realizing the pain they feel midcycle is ovulation.' D'Oh!") and said she's trying to be realistic about their chances any given month. I thought her next paragraph really captured the spirit of twiddling though ...
I do too Patience! Glad I'm not the only dirty-minded person here...
Patience, you wouldn't be the only one.
Sweet pea, if you have FVL and MTHFR, you should see an RE or somebody. Seriously. Both of those conditions can cause miscarriage. In our niece's case, the MTHFR is causing first trimester loss, but some of the clotting disorders cause later losses. You're going to need treatment, and if you have MTHFR, I think you need folic acid supplements, way more than women normally need.
Um, sorry, VP, but that did make me laugh out loud. So did Soren's comment about England.
VP made me laugh out loud. It also made me feel better.
Well, the great news from this morning is that the machine FINALLY told me I'm at peak fertility! With less than 24 hours before I leave town AGAIN. Fortunately, with enough time to get in some thinking of England. ;-)
It made me think all that angsting was for nothing and I didn't need to call the doctor, but I'm now thinking that it is good I have the appointment, because either I won't be pregnant and it'll be a problem or I will be pregnant and I should get an appointment with an RE to talk about the blood clotting stuff. I suppose starting to take folic acid supplements wouldn't hurt either. Usually I don't have to, since I get enough via diet, but I think it might be a good time to start being conservative.
I want to thank everyone here SO much. Over the last week and especially for the last two days I've been decending into a horrible morass of anxiety and depression. After I posted yesterday it was like the clouds parted and I got normal again. I think I just needed to vent about my frustration and stress. The hairpats helped a lot, too.
Sweet pea, I'm glad you're feeling better. This stuff is horribly stressful.
You should definitely start taking folic acid. It won't hurt you to have extra on board anyway, and I think you're going to need extra supplements.
sweet pea, can I throw in some monitor advice? According to my doctor (once I finally sucked it up and went to see her, which I would still be stalling on except someone from TPW kept very gently nagging me via backchannel, which stalling in my case would have been a very bad idea since it seems like the dye study was the tipping point)... anyway.
According to my doctor, once the monitor gives you an idea of your cycle, ideally you try to hit the day *before* you expect to get the little eggy icon, and then two days later (the second day of the little eggy icon). Instead of what I was doing, which was seeing the peak signal and thinking "OK, next two days are the ones." Talk to your doctor, but I do think the monitor directions are confusing and from what mine said, can lead you to decrease your odds while thinking you're increasing them.
Van: TIME TO MAKE THE DONUTS
LC, thanks. It is a little confusing. Though now a little sad, because unless we get up even earlier tomorrow morning than the already horrible hour needed to catch my flight, I won't be around for day 2 of the little eggy icon. Which we call "The Olive," since that's what it looks like to us.
Since we're all oversharing this morning, I will point out that the endless days of High! but Not Peak! monitoring has actually been fun this month, as opposed to last month where it just felt grueling.
If I were oversharing, I could tell you lots more about this morning's encounter! But since a few of you (at least tikibar and Kels and Andrea, off the top of my head) have met my husband in person, I won't embarrass him--or me--any more right now.
Sweetpea, is this your second month of using the monitor?
Argh, period is a day late, I feel pukey, but negative test.
FUCKING BODY. Stop messing with me!
warning: long post purely asking for non-TTC advice coming...
okay. my babysitter is going in for the transfer tomorrow. she's got (as of yesterday) 4 embryos -- 2 As and 2 Bs. I think I'm pretty sensitive but obviously reallize that it may be easier to put my foot in it in this kind of situation because I've never been through IVF. I want to be reassuring and upbeat -- and really she has no reason not to be -- but at the same time want to "honor" (if that's the right word) what seems to me to be her crushing disappointment that she doesn't have more, that one didn't make it -- all things that she says that she may have been told were going to happen (and i think she was told but chose to ignore).
she knows from what I dug up on the Internet (and learned from you guys) that going to the blast stage in fact means that she may lose another one of two (or worse case all, but this is rare, apparently) but my sense is that she believed, or wanted to believe, that IVF was going to insulate her from all the normal crappy roll-of-the-dice genetic stuff that happens that makes an embryo live or die. I try to explain to her that really what they are seeing in the lab is more or less what would be going on inside of a fallopian tube -- and there's many reasons why egg and sperm don't make a baby.
I don't feel like I'm being very clear and emotionally, I understand that she's on a roller coaster. It's sort of like it's sinking in to her that her chances are 50 percent, not 100 percent, despite all of the struggle she's been through (and as the clinic said at the beginning of the process) and now that things are out of the clinics control, she's terribly fearful, upset (crying all night, can't eat, etc.) as is her family, which knows even less about this process than she does.
any words of wisdom (FWIW, our relationship is close friendship, not employer/employee -- she's been with us for 8 years and she and I are close in age).
If her clinic has suggested/made available any counseling, I'd encourage her to take advantage of it. She sounds pretty unhinged, and while the drugs she's on might be contributing, she may benefit from some professional handholding, all the same.
2 As and 2 Bs is nothing to sneeze at. People have had twins here with less than that. While she seems to be very overwrought, that's not uncommon at all with IVF. The thing is, the way she's feeling isn't completely connected to the success or failure of each individual embryo at this moment (even though she thinks it is) -- she's making herself nuts fretting about the details. At this point, she really, seriously, knows nothing about the likelihood of success with this cycle, so I would emphasize that every single time she starts to fixate. She's feeling doomed, and there's no reason for that at this moment. She needs to do her very very best to detach herself from any feelings of impending doom, and try to switch to doing as many things as she can to distract herself, feel good, and have fun. Take all that energy she's exerting on feeling like crap, and make a concerted effort to be as self-indulgent, selfish, and spoiled as possible.
Indulging in constant handwringing and regret isn't going to change the outcome one iota, and it's making her feel like shit. It might be time for some tough love of the: "Buck up, pull yourself together, it's not over 'til it's over, let's go eat ice cream" variety. If she can't pull herself out of the constant obsessing over the details, I would strongly recommend some professional help. I myself would go to a regular therapist, not someone billed as an "IVF therapist," just because she needs to get outside herself and the IVF thing and deal with the depression/anxiety first and foremost. But that's just me.
I can't imagine how you could be clearer. This is a perfect explanation.
(edit) Also agree with the second Kate. A little tough love might be called for here (K often takes on that role with me and it is useful). I went with the IVF counselor idea, though, because someone who has no idea what a blast is or what her chances are might make it worse.
I agree with Kate (I was referiing to the first Kate) , and since the best role for friend at this point is not advisor but support person, I think you need to steer her gently but firmly back to the experts. It doesn't sound as though she's been hearing the hard facts from you. Maybe the doctor or (more likely) the nurse can get through to her. An IVF counselor would be ideal if there is such a thing.
I think what worries me most is that she can't get over the one embryo dying off at the beginning. This is so much an inveitable part of the prcess that it worries me that she took it so hard.
And yes, I imagine the hormones are doing some of this.
Andrea: thank you so much for saying that about my explanation. I was certain someone here was going to tell me I was wrong (biology was never a strong suit!).
anyway, i had lunch with her today and she seems to have had a bit of a turnaround. she understands that it is out of her hands and that she needs to go in and listen to the docs with an open mind and that (in all liklihood)she'll have some eggs to transfer tomorrow. they got a phone call from friends in ireland (they're all irish) who have gone through IVF six times and just found out yesterday they are pg with twins. so now she has the experience of people for whom it has worked the first time (several of her friends and her SIL) and those for whom it worked after many times.
she's got a good history of pulling herself today -- she nursed her dad through a cancer dx and massive surgeries a few years ago (he died last year). in that case, i went to all of the doc apts with them, and i know that what she was hearing and what i was hearing was totally different because of emotion. in this case, the only people hearing the info are both emotional about it, her husband probably less so, but he has less knowledge and therefore less context to what he's hearing.
she'll know on the 27th, so we'll all just have to hope for the best. i suspect that while our family is on vacation next week she'll just take to her bed, which may be the best for all concerned.
on edit: of course the suggestions of counseling and group are good -- and believe me I'm sure her clinic offers it all -- but there is absolutely nothing in their cultural makeup that would allow them to even consider that option because it's a. your personal business and b. something no one else can really understand because they are not you and c. if you're upset you should pray about it (and i understand where they are coming from -- this line of thinking is pretty typical for African-Americans as well).
Still no fucking period, and negative test again. WTFingF?
31 days, but I'm a 28 day-er, with very few exceptions. I know it's very early to be assuming anything - it's just very odd for me to be late at all.
Ah, maybe that explains my 31-day Clomid cycle when they've been averaging more like 26. Very odd; extremely bad PMS for days, then a light two and a half day period.
No, I didn't start Clomid yet - he wanted to get through one cycle with me first to see when everything happens, and he wanted me in on day 2 for bloodwork. So of course, what happens? NO FUCKING PERIOD.
Nope, Marya, I couldn't stand it anymore at day 30 and tested. Negative. Just Clomid weirdness, I guess.
just letting you guys know that my babysitter's transfer went well yesterday -- two blasties, one BB, one BC for those of you who actually understand this grading. she's been told that she has a 40 percent of twins although one blasty is significantly larger (?) than the other. she's also been told that the chance of triplets (!) or identical twins is rare but possible, which again means that i need to bone up on my high school biology because i thought that two blasties meant two fraternal twins at the most and that they'd past the point where they could all join up or divide or do other stuff like that.
anyway, thanks to you all for your thoughts and suggestions. back to lurk mode now (i hope, and i'm sure you do as well!)
Identical twins happen randomly when one of those blasts decides to divide into two. Identicals have the exact same genes, and I believe share a placenta and yolk sac and stuff, while fraternals each have their own. Fraternal twins run in families, are more common in certain groups (sub-Saharan Africans, e.g.), and are more likely to occur in women who have their first pregnancy later in life, with a peak occurrence among women who have their first pregnancy at age 37. The odds of having identical twins are 1 in 285, no matter what your race/age/family history. Identicals are completely random.
see, that's amazing. i guess it thought these things were past the point where they could divide. so it makes sense that they could divide into triplets, then, as well.
Except, of course, that her chance of having of fraternal twins is far higher than it would be, having nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with them having put two blasts in there.
Good luck to your babysitter, Jan.
We'll know tomorrow, ultrasound in the morning. If we can't see heartbeat/s yet, we will at least know if there's one sac or two (or none, but trying not to think about that).
I feel much, much more pregnant than I did last time, but I don't think that's correlated with anything.
Good luck, Andrea!
Actually, recent research (sorry I don't have a cite) shows that's not completely true--identical twinning can run in families to some extent. And you're also more likely to get identical twins with IVF, because all the manipulation of the embryos make them more likely to split. (This information comes from my friend L. who is a physician and also went through IVF, twice, ending up with fraternl twin boys.)
Back to lurking (and being quietly happy for the newly pregnant).
Good luck tomorrow, Andrea!
I am trying so hard not to be nervous, but I suspect it's only going to work so well until I see a heartbeat at least. Last week I was feeling all pregnant - tingly nipples, heartburn, nausea if I didn't eat right away in the morning - but this week the nausea and heartburn are much less and I'm mindfucking it. I'm thinking at least some of last week's symptoms were psychological, though - could my HCG even have been high enough at 4 weeks and change to make me feel sick? Last time I felt great until 6 weeks, a week past the point I am now.
RBG-- You can have the suckness at 4 weeks. I was nauseated the day I tested with both Augs and Chas. And the horking commenced about a week after my positive tests.
Ah - so it's normal for it to come and go a bit at first, then?
I wondered about where your test was that it would be on a Sunday! Sorry that you (and we) have to wait longer.
I confided all in a woman I do volunteer work with and she was very supportive and had some good suggestions. Which was handy, since the stress of everything (combined with a not-so-fun visit to the sleep-deprived home of a 5-week-old) provoked a fight. Ugh.
I don't know if this is the place to ask this question, but there was an article on donor sibling registries in the New York Times today, where kids can get online and search by clinic and donor number to find their half-sisters and half-brothers. My question is this - for donor kids that don't use these registries, or maybe don't even know they're donor kids if their parents haven't told them, what happens if they unwittingly start dating their donor brother? Does that ever happen?
First of all, the odds are pretty slim what with there being gajillions of people in the world AND most clinics retire a donor after a certain number of successful pregnancies. Plus, donors are carefully screened for a number of genetic problems so I would imagine the odds of 2 donor kids having two headed babies together seems less risky than 2 random unscreened kids. That's straight from the New England Journal of My Ass, though.
My friend had life/coping strategies. Her huge suggestion was about taking Green with me to my doctor's appointment. He offered to go, but I wasn't sure it was necessary. She pointed out that there's so much room for bad feelings, blame, guilt, etc, that we should do everything we can together as a couple. That the more we can face this as a unit, the more we face even the bad feelings together, the less room there'll be for fighting. Given that if we do find an answer, at some level Green is going to feel like it is someone's fault (and from my reaction to my own body weirdness last week, I might feel that way too), she's got a great point.
smartygirl: There was a couple in our interfaith premarital counselling group who had both been adopted as babies. They told us that they did genetic testing of some sort when they started dating seriously, to make sure they weren't related (same city, same general ethnicity). I assume the same sort of thing would be available if donor children wanted to do the same thing.
Smarty, we have not registered our kid with a donor sibling registry. No one from our sperm bank is even participating in the largest one, since they're a small bank.
Really, I think a big part of the solution is honesty. Calvin will know from early on (before the words mean anything to him) that he was conceived using donor sperm. It's the same policy we would have followed if he'd been adopted. If he knows, and anybody's he dating also knows, there are plenty of ways of checking things out before they get serious.
Smarty, remember that multiple studies have shown that up to 10% of children biologically unrelated to the father on the birth certificate (i.e. Mom was fooling around). Now if Mom was sleeping with the town romeo, don't you figure there's a decent chance he may have impregnated other local women? Whose children live in the same neighborhood and social stratus, and are likely to associate (and thus eventually procreate with)? The first child has no idea he even has a sperm donor other than his legal dad, so won't even question marrying his highschool sweetheart.
Unlikley, of course, but a lot more likely than a sperm donor kid in Cincinnati accidentally bumping into, and impregnanting one of the 5-10 halfsibs spread ovwer and entire continent.
Wow, what a horrifying thought.
Okay, let's not think about Flowers in the Attic anymore (my mother was right to not want me to read that in grade seven).
I had spotting almost a week ago (cycle day 9 & 10, last Tuesday and Wednesday), and my right ovary has been hurting since then (not constantly but regular nasty twinges). But no temp shift. Why why why?
Got my period with a vengeance this weekend, 4 days late. Makes me wonder if the late ovulation was an aberration.Anyway, back today for more blood for Clomid challenge test.
Okay, went for day 3 bloodwork. They also want to have me get an "hsg" test or dye test next week, I guess to see if my tubes are open. I'll search the thread, but anyone had that done recently?
Babs, I had that done in June. I think there is a lot of good advice upthread, which I unfortunately did not read beforehand! Basically they shoot some dye up there, have you flop around on the table to distribute it, and then take photos to look for any blockages. In some cases, it has been known to clear blockages.
Argh, the catheter and cramps do not sound good at all. So they basically insert a cathether into the uterus, fill it up with stuff, and then wait?
Babs, it's not a very long procedure. They insert the catheter (which is very small) through the cervix and fill your uterus up with contrast media. If your tubes are open, it'll spill through your tubes, and they can see it as it happens on the fluoroscope. They'll also do some x-rays, and then they're done.
I think mine took maybe 15 minutes from the time I laid down on the table until they let me up to go get dressed. I do recommend taking some drugs in advance--it is uncomfortable, and some people have cramps afterward.
They told me to take 800 mg of Motrin or whatever I usually take for cramps. Is that pretty standard?
I had a fair amount of bleeding with mine, Babs, so take some pads with you, too. Although the procedure itself was very uncomfortable, I didn't have much cramping after. You'll get to see your uterus and fallopian tubes on screen, which is pretty cool.
I liked seeing my parts on the fluoroscope. That really was cool.
I had no cramping afterward. I did need a pad for the day--they use betadine or something to prep your cervix, and the contrast media leaks back out, too. Lovely.
I'm starting Clomid on Wednesday, as well.
It just seems so homey-- I picture little 50's style housewives in there plumping things up and pushing a cannister vac.
It just seems so homey-- I picture little 50's style housewives in there plumping things up and pushing a cannister vac.
Isn't there a porn-shoot employee called a fluffer? I can't get past that association.
Is this for real?
Taking cough syrup can help you conceive
You guys ready?
There are two. The picture is, amazingly, an exact match for the last time they had their picture taken: one textbook perfect, nice fetal pole, faint flicker both doctors think is a heartbeat but won't commit to until the next u/s, and one smaller and smudgier but surely there, with a visible if less well-defined fetal pole. It may simply be its placement in the uterus.
Pregnant. Currently with twins. OMG.
I KNEW IT!!
Congratulations, Andrea. Holy shit.
Wow wow wow! It's a twofer!!
Wow, wow, wow! Wonderful news!!!
(funny crosspost there)
How cool is that!!!!!!
YAAAAHOOOO! Two yahoos, even.
Holy holy holy moley!
Wonderful, Andrea. Wonderful! I imagine what you posted is what you know, but does "an exact match for the last time they had their picture taken" and the rest mean that basically one looks very perfect and strong and the other one is there but perhaps less perfect and less strong? Did the second show a heartbeat yet?
ANDREA ANDREA ANDREA! I hoped when I saw 45 new posts.
I got pregnant the week after mine after almost two years TTC. I don't mean to paint it as a magic bullet, but I have said to two doctors "I know it's anecdotal, but..." and they have both said immediately it's a known effect for some problems.
It was quite uncomfortable for about two minutes - comparable to a colposcopy, maybe - and I wish I'd known to take the Motrin beforehand. I had a pad for the dye stuff and was kind of achey for the rest of the day, but I think it would have been a lot better with Motrin.
Andrea, Andrea, Andrea. I have no words.
Me either!
It does mean this and yet neither doctor really thinks it's necessarily predictive of anything in the long run. They warned me (not that this was news to me) that one twin often disappears, but they didn't seem particularly convinced that #2 ("Smudgy") was the candidate.
Basically, too early. I go back at 8 weeks.
IIRC, we've had smudgy singletons around here before too, who went on to become crystal clear perfect babes.
Man. Twins. How cool is that?
And if you think they're messing with your head now, just wait.
Julie, she was with me. K is traveling (bah). She is just so happy. Everybody (both doctors and myself) kept saying, "Great job, dude!" and she just beamed and said, "You are So pregnant."
No great words of wisdom on any side, but much grinning.
And thank you all for being so happy for us.
So what's your official due date, Andrea? Can we think about that now?
7/17, supposedly, but if it's twins I doubt we'd make it that far.
I am still leery of thinking of due dates and such. I need a much clearer heartbeat/s, and to get out of 1st tri, and then we're talking.
Binny, I sure didn't. And yet I have cried (both good tears and bad tears) for so many invisible people I certainly should know.
ANDREA! Twins!!! Oh, I'm so excited for you.
Andrea!!!!! (double)Wooooooooooooooo!
If only sex columns sold as well as plain ole sex sells.
Let me plug Della's birthday again--07/05. You could get lucky & Della's Shirley Temple-ish curls could come as part of the package. That could be a real help for the sitcom deals.
If the benefits lady sees that, she sure is.
Oh, Andrea, I'm all sniffly for you.
Twins! Yay!
Way back in the dark ages when my mom was pregnant with my brother, her doctor said he thought he heard two fetal heartbeats. My mom started getting upset, and he said, "what's wrong? I have twins. Twins are fun!" She claims it was all she could do to keep from smacking him. Twins are twice as expensive! Twice as much work!
He sent her across the street to the hospital for an ultrasound (not routine in those days). In the time she waited to see a tech, she reconciled herself to the idea, and started thinking that maybe twins would be fun. She was even a little disappointed when the u/s showed just one.
Congratulations Decca!
Oh, wow! What wonderful news, Andrea! I'm a little teary too.
This sounds like a really sane way to think about it, Andrea.
Two for the price of one! Andrea, how exciting--I'm really happy for you.
Decca, I think it's sweet that you cried when you heard the heartbeat. Yay for the little heartbeat.
Decca, hurray for the whooshwhooshwhoosh. I loved that sound.
Andrea!!!!! So, so excited for you!
(hope you're printing all of these out for the baby book(s)!)
Two! How exciting for you and K! I'm so happy for you both!
Anytime between the 5th and the 9th of December. I'll book it based on when K can be there. If it's turned bad I'll need him there, but for once I'm not expecting bad. I'm expecting he gets to see his kid's/kids' heartbeat, and he's not going to want to miss that.
Awww, that's good.
By the way, Chart Afficienados--any thoughts on whether The Fiend misread and I ovulated earlier than CD23? We stopped the babydancing on the morning of CD21, dammit. Also, when I got my annual exam on CD15, the midwife declared me high-cervixed and predicted I'd ovulate "within the next day or two."
What are the white dots on your chart, Van (vs. the dark, filled-in ones)? And was anything unusual happening in the earlier days, like days 7 through 11 -- illness or anything?
Andrea:
Now you can get this:
Congratulations!
Thanks, everyone. It hasn't really sunk in yet, and it still might change anyway, but I can confidently say that right now I am happy and so are K and J. It has been an amazing trip.
I'm leaving in the morning so don't think I'm ungrateful if I stop responding to posts. They mean a lot for me.
Congratulations, Andrea & K!
Hooray! I'm so glad.
A7, those are days when I've taken my temperature at a different time than usual. I set the default for 6am (when my alarm is set) but should probably change it to 5am since that's when I usually wake up anyhow.
Sparky posted it, I think, over at DWS, and I suggested it. preen
I said it--and since I have never been quoted in a tag line I want the credit (dammit) (G)
It's so exciting for Andrea and Decca! I'm so pleased for everyone who is getting good news and fingers are crossed for those still waiting.
So weird - I haven't read this thread for about a year and suddenly decide I should check in. What awesome news. Congratulations congratulations Andrea, woo hooo woo hoo.
You sure damn have. You've ridden too many ups and downs for others - now may your own pregnancy go swimmingly.